I've seen some "foreros" or forum members interested in the subject of this book... one of the "tomiest" tomes of all...
There is a social group maitained by rpgray, which is (as quoted from there)
For people reading Don Quijote (or any other work by Miquel de Cervantes) in the original Spanish.

Or anyone who wants to discuss a work by Cervantes. (Unquote)

The group only has two members now, and I tried to start a discussion about the intention and meaning of "Don Quixote".

You can give your views on that, and/or join the group...

You can also mention here (maybe) the funniest anecdotes you remember from the book...(an anecdote is a short account of a particular incident or event of an interesting or amusing nature...)

What do you think?

I'll have to keep an eye on this thread. I recently downloaded an English version on my cell phone, though I haven't really gotten into it yet (still working through some paper-books that I'm in the middle of).

My Spanish probably isn't anywhere near good enough to get through a Spanish-language version; but I may attempt it at some later date. We watched one of the movie adaptations back in Spanish class in high school, but that's been . . . 12 or 13 years ago? So I don't remember too much.

I saw the group and downloaded the Spanish and English versions on my phone. I am reading the English version now and it appears that Don Quixote may be schizophrenic. If it continues to be and the author is making fun of a schizophrenic man I will probably not like it.

I am reading the English version now and it appears that Don Quixote may be schizophrenic. I think that might be missing the point rather. The book is a parody of books on chivalry, so the main character is a complete fool. This is one problem I have with it - if you are not familiar with the previous literature, you won't appreciate the satire. In addition to that, I don't find it remotely funny. I find it tedious and pointless. I have a problem with that as well, because most 'experts' claim it is by far the best book of Spanish literature, so I'm obviously missing something. Either that or there is no literature worth reading, and I find that rather hard to believe.

Count me in on this thread, I want to find something which would revise my opinion.

Well, it is very interesting to me to get your viewpoints on the matter. What is also interesting to me is the fact that Don Quixote is the "crazy guy", but as a matter of fact, (believe it or not) he is the ONLY guy in the whole novel who is actually SANE. Why do I say that?
Well, there are critics or readers that talk about how Don Quixote becomes more and more "sane" as the novel goes through and he goes from being in a delusory or delusive world into a "real" world. On the other hand the "practical" guy, Sancho Panza, evolves from being an earthly, worldly man, mundane and vulgar, into a guy 'crazied' by the "craziness" of his lord, Don Quixote...

Of course, one important barrier in reading Don Quixote, (particularly in its Spanish original) is the amount of unfamiliar words one has to look up in the dictionary... But if one gets to that and grasps the unbelievably witty allusions... well, it is fun reading.

@Perikles, did you read the Spanish version or an English translation?

As far as funny stories, there is one where both Don Quixote and Sancho are riding in the middle of the night, there is no light at all, pitch black... and as they are moving along, they start hearing some kind of pounding, both believe the pounding may be produced by an actual giant who is getting closer and closer... they keep going valiantly... with courage... Sancho expresses his fear, but he carries on with Don Quixote... (the whole thing is a crescendo of suspense... and fear and anxiety for both characters, and for the reader...) There is one point where the tension is so high, the fear so intense... then Don Quixote says, "Huele..., y no a ámbar" ("Smells... and it is not [the smell of] amber")... This is the subtle style Cervantes has to convey that Sancho is literally shitting himself... i.e., instead of saying Sancho was scared shitless, he says it in a way that is clearly implied... (When I was reading this for the first time I had to stop there and ROFL... :D :D such a release of tension...)
At any rate, the thing goes on, regardless... and they remain unmoving the whole night while hearing the incessant pounding until the sunrise reveals they are standing by a fulling machine by the river...

@Perikles, did you read the Spanish version or an English translation?...I must be about a third of the way through the Spanish, using the English translation as a dictionary. I kept losing the will to live....:mad:

I've never thought of Don Quixote as being a work to "make fun of" or even make light of some "crazy guy" with some mental illness.

Rather to me, it's simply a man that wanted to be something more than he was, so he went out and became that. Was he 'crazy' and 'weird'? Yeah. But was he happy? Isn't that what counts?

If I wanted to get all highschool-lit, I'd say it's a symbolic tale of finding one's own path happiness regardless of what everyone else tells you to be and do.

. . . though I could also be missing the meaning of the story, as I admittedly don't remember how it ends. :)

(I just finished "Chapter 5" in the version I have, but that's out of 127 chapters split over two parts. So . . . there's quite a ways to go yet.)

((Oh, and I've been reading it today even though I said there were some other books I want to finish first because I'm at work, and have my cell phone on me, but not said other books))

@Perikles... I hear you, man. Oh, boy. I believe you may be "hitting" some misunderstood word or words, "translated" in a way that may make sense in the English (if you follow in English...) Do you experience the phenomena of getting to the end of the page and not getting what was all about? (I.e., the page becomes a blank in your mind?) I dare to adventure that as a possibility... (words are treacherous many times... I mean, you know better than me...)

@Fazor. Well, if you have any questions, and/or if you read something fun to share, or whatever, I'll always be interested... I share part of your "interpretation" (re: happiness). To me one of the greatest values of the book is that every person can take the interpretation he/she wants to get. It is a piece of art (in my view) in that, like a kaleidoscope, it can be seen in many different ways, and from different slants... Don Quixote has an unbelievable ability to "create a reality" or "a new reality"... And that is something. The point is that one can create a higher reality, even if not in agreement with the rest of mortals... But that is what great writers do. They create an illusion of "truth" and when we get into stories, we "believe" them... even if we know they are 'fiction'. (That's why I like Pérez Reverte, A. Dumas, or Dan Brown... Herman Melville or L. Ron Hubbard, S. King or Asimov... Verne or 'even' Agatha Christie.) They 'postulate' new realities, new goals, higher levels of awareness... while you have fun reading them... :)

Note: When I first saw "Pulp Fiction" I thought it was a great movie, in terms of having a constructive message. Many people I know didn't like it because of the gratuitous/unwarranted violence. But to me, that was exactly the very point of the film. Planet Earth, state of current society and 'moral' values... Hello? Anybody home? Let's wake up!

Well, I'm only on chapter 6 so I have quite a ways to go. It is interesting, and I think it's a book my son would enjoy so I may get it for him for Christmas. I should be done with it then lol.

Yup, when I first read it, it took me a whole Christmas holidays (almost 3 weeks at a full-time basis) and then reading very little every day, until I got to Easter (8 or 10 days holidays, and then I finished it.) (I enjoyed better the second part of it... the first part had sections that were not that 'exciting' for me... but I'll be hitting it again.)

(Pérez Reverte wrote in one of his latest 'Patentes de Corso', a letter to young writer, Part I, that if one wants to be a writer, it is good to read a bunch of CLASSICs, and to read/study Don Quixote, sentence by sentence, enjoying every word and every concept... as you go...) (Well, I'll take the advice and get the best out of it... the advice and the reading.) :)

OK - I've got my DQ in my desk, and I see from the edges of the pages how I didn't get very far (you know, when the bit you have read is darker than the virgin pages). I shall try again, I think for the 5th time.....

Ok, ask if any questions! (I may or may not be able to answer... but I'll try!) :)

Ok, ask if any questions! (I may or may not be able to answer... but I'll try!) :)Thanks - but you might regret the offer. :rolleyes:

I understand... I take it as a challenge then ... (and God help us!)
Never regret yesterday, life is in you today and you make your tomorrow! :)

I haven't read Don Quixote, but I understand that the metaphor of fighting windmills or bucking the tide is no necessarily a proclamation craziness. It is an act of fierce individualism and for taking a strong stance against popular thought which may or may not be crazy.

Cervantes' Moses-like image of the crazy/sane man is so strong that it
is internationally known and has survived centuries. I have to struggle reading modern Spanish, so I wouldn't dare venture into the old stuff.

Yesterday and today I read 3 chapters, 1.XVIII - 1.XX, and have lost the will to live. I'm reading the original, using the Smollett translation of 1755 for vocabulary, and I actually think the original is easier to read than the stilted English version. No doubt it is full of allusions which go over my head, but my reaction is always that there must be better ways of spending my time. :thinking: I shall however persevere a little longer. :crazy:

In the past I had searched for a side-by-side Spanish - English version. I've seen such books in the past, but never did find one for Don Quixote.

The English translation I have isn't too bad, but I'm not sure which version it is.

In the past I had searched for a side-by-side Spanish - English version. I've seen such books in the past, but never did find one for Don Quixote.



This can be inconvenient to read, but you can find the first part of the book as a bilingual side by side text here:

http://www.fusion-ebook.com/EBLanding_KBSS_1002CLN10-9_.aspx

I don't know if this translation is the best one :thinking:...

This can be inconvenient to read, but you can find the first part of the book as a bilingual side by side text here:

http://www.fusion-ebook.com/EBLanding_KBSS_1002CLN10-9_.aspx

I don't know if this translation is the best one :thinking:...Thanks very much for the link - it will be very useful for me. On first inspection the English does not look too good, but adequate to use as an instant dictionary.

@Poli. Interesting viewpoint. (I agree with it.) I was checking a contemporary English translation last night, which seems to me very readable. Yes, with a 'dated' tinge, of course, but readable for a native Spanish like me. (I'll get the name of the translator and edition, as I left it at home.) :rolleyes: :)
@Fazor. I take that reading the English to begin with, may be plenty... I recognize that trying to read the Spanish (even with the English) is even hard for a Spanish native, given tha amount of old vocabulary... but still. If one likes the subject and enjoys it, go ahead... otherwise, it seems a better idea to take short books (even just short fairy tales... read them in English and then the Spanish translation... reading about know subjects and subjects you like it makes easier to acquire more vocabulary and be more at ease with the language...) (I believe some Catholic Cardinal had the Guiness record of languages spoken fluently and ability to write these correctly. I forgot what it was, in the order of hundreds... 150 or something outrageous like that. But I bet he learned a lot of prayers, (which repeat words and concepts) and learned in different languages... Either that, or he remembered all his past lifes without the amnesia majority of people have on those... :shh: :)
@Perikles. Well, if you don't enjoy it, I would not carry on. It is like if you don't like shrimps you don't like them. (I have a friend who hates them... which I can understand... although I don't share his liking on that... I love shrimps!) (Well, I am now comparing Cervantes to shrimps... but there is no need to suffer. When I read "Crónica de una muerte anunciada" by García Márquez, I enjoyed the writing, but when I read the part about the murder... oh my God! I was getting dizzy, and having body reactions... Márquez tends to be a bit too vivid with some things... yet, I can say "wow!". (That book is not my 'favourite' either, but I can appreciate its value too.) :)
@Homo Vulgaris. Thank you for the link. As I say to above to the other 'foreros'. Don Quixote in Spanish original may not be the best reading to 'start' learning Spanish... it is rather advanced (and archaic) Spanish... :)

@Perikles. Well, if you don't enjoy it, I would not carry on. . :)In any other language, I might agree, But Spanish is peculiar in that this is the only book which exists as a classical text, so I am reluctant to dismiss it like that.

Feel free to correct me on this point.....

Well, there are authors like Lope de Vega and Calderón de la Barca, who are really classics... (La vida es sueño is one of my favorites...)

But you have “classics” like Luces de Bohemia (by Valle-Inclán) (relatively short play.)

You have Benito Pérez Galdós (right from las Palmas...) (I only read Fortunata y Jacinta... quite a while ago... but I enjoyed that one.) (If you like Zola you may like him.)

You have also Clarín (La Regenta)... Also quite a tome, but very interesting too.

But if you want to have fun, good suspense and everything else I would recommend you to get Arturo Pérez Reverte... any of his books is worth reading.

I haven’t read that much by him (I want to get caught up with all his books, though), just the first 3 books of the series about Capitán Alatriste, also La Tabla de Flandes, El Club Dumas, Un asunto de honor, El maestro de esgrima... (maybe I forgot a title...)

El Club Dumas, particularly, is already a Classic even if there is not much ‘history perspective yet...

(Well, as far as “Classics” what I say here it only scratches the surface... so much stuff on the shelves worth reading...) :)

Thanks for the tips - as you can see, the list is relatively short....

@Perikles: Pablo just wrote some examples, but just as he said, literature in Spanish is rather rich in authors and works. It has never been limited to the Quijote, although it was the most successful one of its time.

@Perikles: Pablo just wrote some examples, but just as he said, literature in Spanish is rather rich in authors and works. It has never been limited to the Quijote, although it was the most successful one of its time.Well you say that, but they must be secret because I never hear of any. The very few local book shops here have very little selection of Spanish (language) writers - Cervantes, Márquez, Allende, Pérez-Reverte and that's it. The rest are translations from English, German or French, and a load of cookery books and children's books. :thinking:

A bad bookstore is not a synonym of poor literature, although it is a synonym of a poor culture. It happens here too that commercial printing of classic books doesn't seem to be so profitable nowadays. However, there are still old editions in used book shops and libraries, and if you're interested in some topic or period, we might be able to suggest some works/authors to look for... maybe even some internet links to them. :)

A bad bookstore is not a synonym of poor literature, although it is a synonym of a poor culture.
I would be interested to know which books somebody would read if they were Spanish speaking, and reading for a degree in Spanish literature.

BTW You try to help me and all I do is criticize your English, and it is not intentional. But synonym in the above context is not correct because it must always refer to one specific word (or infinitive). For example to aid is a synonym for to help. It is absolutely clear what you mean, and I think you could say

A bad bookstore is not synonymous with poor literature, although it is an indication of a poor culture. :) :thinking:

Hi Perikles,

To list the authors considered Classic in Spanish literature would be a task I would not finish in a whole day...

A person studying for a degree in Spanish needs a basic acquaintance with Old Spanish (Poema de Mio Cid...) and progresses from there, Conde Lucanor, Manrique (everlasting poetry), la Celestina... Garcilaso de la Vega (awesome poet), Quevedo, Gongora... Espronceda, Becquer, Generación del 98 (Unamuno, Baroja, Machado...) Generación del 27 (a bunch of them...) and then more contemporary... The guys doing a degree in Spanish need to specialize in one period, given that the amount of material is so big...

I mean, try to read the complete works by Galdós... or Clarín... you may need a couple of lifetimes... (The amount of output is just a bit over our heads...)

You have a lot to choose... (Camilo José Cela is another good one... also Nobel Price few years ago... maybe 20...) :)

Thanks for that - I'll investigate. The problem I have is that if anybody is interested in European literature, they will certainly be acquainted with English, German, Italian and French authors, as well as Latin and Greek ones. Spanish literature seems relatively unkown, almost obscure. Why is that?

Wow, it beats me... I thought everybody knew all the Golden Age of literature in Spain (a couple of centuries of authors full of wit and and genius...) (My favorite is Quevedo... both his poetry and his prose.) La vida del Buscón Don Pablos... is just one of the best "picaresca" (picaresque genre)...
You have Valle-Inclán, a good writer too... not to mention the many Latin American ones... Rubén Darío, Vargas Llosa, Gabriela Mistral...

Well, here is one link... (the first one I found)
http://www.ciao.es/Literatura_clasica_325356_3-clasicos_espanoles
(The list goes on and on, and at a glance they only got few of the Classics authors there.) :)

I would be interested to know which books somebody would read if they were Spanish speaking, and reading for a degree in Spanish literature.

BTW You try to help me and all I do is criticize your English, and it is not intentional. But synonym in the above context is not correct because it must always refer to one specific word (or infinitive). For example to aid is a synonym for to help. It is absolutely clear what you mean, and I think you could say

A bad bookstore is not synonymous with poor literature, although it is an indication of a poor culture. :) :thinking:

Thank you for the correction, I had never thought about the difference between "synonym" and "synonymous". It's clear now. :rose:

About the interest on a professional selection of Spanish literature, I need to talk to some academics so I can come back with suggestions and/or syllabi. :)

Bueno, aquí hay una orientación muy general,
http://www.uned.es/fac-filg-hisp/

Thanks for the pointer - looks like good place to start. :thumbsup:

You're welcome...

(One of the most famous Spanish "literary disputes" with many funny turns along the line was between Quevedo and Góngora... both incredibly talented writers, but hating each other's their guts no end...)

Luego imaginó don Quijote que aquél era el dueño del cojín y de la maleta, y propuso en sí de buscalle, aunque supiese andar un año por aquellas montañas hasta hallarle
I'm making some progress here - I found some entertaining passages, and even some future subjunctives.

In the above, I suppose that buscalle is an elision (sinalefa?) of buscar + le. If so, why then hallarle?

:thinking:

Not totally sure, but my first guess is to avoid cacophony.
I.e., the "alle" is the archaic usage form of the enclitic, as you correctly note. Following the same pattern it would be "hallalle" which, with the repetition of "ll" it would become hard on the speaker. A synonym, "encontralle" would "regularly" be in place here. But given that "hallar" is the most common way to say "to find" in those days...

This reminds me the typical "defendella y no enmendalla" expression pretty widely used in current Spanish... particularly in political registers... when a politician blunders badly, but then "defends" his/her position "a capa y espada" [fights tooth and nail to defend his/her own error].

I'll do a bit of search to confirm my above guess... (I'd bet on an 80% probability my guess is correct... but if I am wrong, I am the first to recognize it and eat my words... even if they are already in the cybernetic domain...) :rolleyes: :D

NOTE: "Sinalefa" is something else, syn·a·loe·pha, n. the blending of two successive vowels into one, esp. the coalescence of a vowel at the end of one word with a vowel at the beginning of the next.
Also, syna·leapha, syn·a·le·phe.
[1530–40; < NL < Gk synaloiph£, synaliph£, equiv. to syn- SYN- + aloiph-, aliph- (var. stems of aleiphein to smear) + -" fem. n. suffix]
(You may have a better derivation... for a change! ;))

@Perikles: I know this is not what you asked for, but Antonio Alatorre (http://www.colegionacional.org.mx/SACSCMS/XStatic/colegionacional/template/content.aspx?se=vida&te=detallemiembro&mi=110) is an erudite and a brilliant expositor. His book, Los 1,001 Años de la Lengua Española (http://www.fcede.es/site/es/libros/detalleslibro.asp?IDL=2622), edited by the Fondo de Cultura Económica is a great trip through the richness of Spanish language.
I'll send a PM later with something more related to what you wanted to avoid a longer off-topic here. ;)

Thanks both. :thumbsup:

I've now got to DQ 1 chapter XXIV, Caballero de la Sierra. This nut case starts telling his woeful tale of love, but breaks off in the middle and runs off. I find nowhere where this tale continues.

My question is: What is the Point ???????

If I remember well... (I read the full thing 27 years ago... although I will be checking these things... as we go...) the whole 'woeful tale of love' is said again at one point, in full...

I remember some idea of "interpersing" a couple of "novelas pastoriles" in the first part of Don Quixote, as a way to "entertain" the reader... and as a "suspense" factor... a the same time, creating a parallel... with our crazy hero... So, yes... I understand your your reaction to this "silly thing". (I actually prefer the second part of Don Quixote, when there is not other things in between the main story.) But this seems like one "literary resource" of a story inside a story... much like in the film Inception there are dreams inside dreams... (I haven't seen the film yet... but per what I got told... it tends to be quite a mind-f...)