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-   -   Que/ de que (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=4108)

martiina May 27, 2009 09:01 AM

Que/ de que
 
Hey guys, could you help me with this: when do you say Estoy seguro que... ?
and when is it Estoy seguro de que... ?

what are the rules??
I`m having troubles finding out on the internet, its a mystery to me

thank you sooooooo much :)))

Vikingo May 27, 2009 06:55 PM

Hi martiina, and welcome to the forum! You should always use "estoy seguro DE que". The other sentence is used, but is called "queísmo". Saludos :)

CrOtALiTo May 27, 2009 07:23 PM

Yes, I agree with Vikingo's answer you should to use the phrase Estoy seguro de que. This way is more correct than other one.

I bid you welcome to the forums.

Rusty May 27, 2009 08:05 PM

A female says, "Estoy segura de que ..."

Tomisimo May 28, 2009 02:03 PM

Both are fine. "estoy seguro/a (de) que". The RAE frowns on the omission of the "de", but I'll go with what hundreds of millions of native Spanish speakers say every day, not with what the academy dictates. Descriptivism FTW. :) If you want to read more about it, you can search for queísmo, dequeísmo, and antidequeísmo.

CrOtALiTo May 28, 2009 11:13 PM

I've one doubt about one word that in the David's answer said.

The word Frowns. I don't know what meaning it?

Please may someone gives me the meaning of the word.

According as the search that I did before the word in the dictionary from Tomisimo the word meaning Encapotar.

I'm right with that meaning.

irmamar May 29, 2009 01:02 AM

The verb to frown means "mirar con malos ojos", in the sense of "estar en desacuerdo".

I think that when you're learning a language, you should learn the rules of this language. For instance, I know that in English "wanna" and "gonna" are some common words, but I prefer use "want to" and "going to" instead the first ones. Both Spanish and English have a lot of speakers and almost each town or village speaks in a different way, we're not able to know all the ways. So, the best thing is studying the standar and the rules as they have been established. So, I agree with the RAE and I try to speak and write the best Spanish I'm able to. And I'd like to do the same with English. Well, that's my opinion, others will have another one.

bobjenkins May 29, 2009 04:37 AM

Gracias, he esperado sobre esta tambien:) (yo esperaba sobre este tópico de gramática tambien_

Ahora, estoy seguro de que es verdad:)

¿Quién es RAE?

Vikingo May 29, 2009 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomisimo (Post 37336)
Both are fine. "estoy seguro/a (de) que". The RAE frowns on the omission of the "de", but I'll go with what hundreds of millions of native Spanish speakers say every day, not with what the academy dictates. Descriptivism FTW. :)

Aren't you afraid of the consequences? I've looked this up in Butt & Benjamin and Torrego in addition to the RAE, and they all condemn it. B&B speak about "the colloquial tendency to omit the de", though, and aren't as harsh as the other ones.

Do you have any grammar books who find the usage without "de" correct?

In these kinds of phrases it's easy to see that the "de" is needed if we substitute the subordinate noun clause (including "que") with eso.

Estoy seguro eso? :eek: No, of course not. Not to start any big meta-discussion over prescriptivism versus descriptivism, but if you speak to educated native speakers, they're likely to notice these things. So when we know the rules involved, at least we can make an informed decision about how we want to communicate.

I totally agree with Irmamar, by the way :thumbsup:

Take care :)

PS: Bob, these guys.

AngelicaDeAlquezar May 29, 2009 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomisimo (Post 37336)
Both are fine. "estoy seguro/a (de) que". The RAE frowns on the omission of the "de", but I'll go with what hundreds of millions of native Spanish speakers say every day, not with what the academy dictates.[...]


Sorry to disagree. "Estar seguro(a)" is always followed by "de que", no matter how much a big number of Spanish speakers think they do right to omit the preposition.

I agree with irmamar that when one learns a language one must do so with the rules and standards that have been agreed on and established as the correct ones.


As for knowing when "que" and "de que" must be used, it's really hard to tell simple rules... but every language has its own particularities that have to be learnt by experience.


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