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-   -   Para or Por (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=4438)

chileno July 03, 2009 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brute (Post 40926)
mnemotécnicas

Is there a mnemonic to remember the spelling of this word?

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 40947)
Yes, there is: following an alphabetical order, 'm' is before 'n'.

Hay soluciones mnemotécnicas para todo, sólo hay que buscarlas :D

Also, m before p = lámpara

and

n before v = envío

I remember those since I was a kid, they stuck because I was in love with Mrs. Gloria. :o

She had been my teacher since Kindergarten.

Rusty July 03, 2009 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 40951)
Also, m before p = lámpara

and

n before v = envío

I remember those since I was a kid, they stuck because I was in love with Mrs. Gloria. :o

She had been my teacher since Kindergarten.

These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you. :)

chileno July 04, 2009 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 40977)
These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you. :)

Rusty, you lost me. When is the letter n pronounced as an m? Could you please give me an example? :thinking:

And yes I forgot about the combination m before b :)

Rusty July 04, 2009 10:10 AM

In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

CrOtALiTo July 04, 2009 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 41058)
In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

Your explain was very useful.

Thanks.

irmamar July 05, 2009 12:28 AM

I agree with Rusty. :)

Otro mnemotécnico útil sirve para saber colocar los pronombres átonos en la oración: semana < mes < trimestre

Se me ha caído la chaqueta (semana < mes) :good:
Me se ha caido la chaqueta :bad:

Se te ha ocurrido a ti (semana < trimestre) :good:
Te se ha ocurrido a ti :bad:

brute July 05, 2009 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 40977)
These memory aids won't make a lot of sense to new learners of Spanish unless they are also taught that the letter n is pronounced as an m before those consonants (and the letters b and m need to be included in the list).
Many a native speaker will misspell those words if they don't remember the memory aids your teacher taught you. :)

Misspell is a word which is often mispellt:bad: misspelt:bad: mispelt:bad:mispeld:bad:mispeled:bad:mispelld :bad:mispelld :bad:mispelled :bad:misspeld:bad: misspelld:bad:misspel:bad: ...........................!!!!!

chileno July 05, 2009 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 41058)
In many languages (although not in English, in most instances), the letter n is pronounced as if it were the letter m when it is followed by a labial consonant (i.e., b, m, p, and v). There is also a spelling convention, which is what you were stating, that the letter n is changed to an m before those consonants.

The spelling convention isn't always followed, like in the word inconveniente, but the pronunciation rule is. This word is pronounced as if an m appeared before the v.
Here are more examples:

Convencer is pronounced combencer.
Conmigo is pronounced commigo.
Enmascarar is pronounced emmascarar.
Sinvergüenza is pronounced simbergüenza.
Tan bien is pronounced exactly like the word también.
En piezas is pronounced exactly like the word empiezas.

Ok, now I got it.

Although some of the combinations, at least en Chile, are not used like that, due to not pronouncing the v correctly.

Sinvergüenza becomes sinbergüenza etc.

Let me add that this phenomena appears in the lower social stratus where education is scarce at best. :/

tacuba July 05, 2009 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 41087)
I agree with Rusty. :)

Otro mnemotécnico útil sirve para saber colocar los pronombres átonos en la oración: semana < mes < trimestre

Thanks for the rule Irmamar. I learned it as Reflexive < Indirect < Direct or R.I.D.

irmamar July 06, 2009 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tacuba (Post 41151)
Thanks for the rule Irmamar. I learned it as Reflexive < Indirect < Direct or R.I.D.

R.I.D? What is R.I.D?:thinking:

¡Soy tonta! Ya lo he pillado :D


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