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-   -   S/z (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=8381)

irmamar July 01, 2010 05:43 AM

S/z
 
There are words that can be written in a different way in British and American English, above all these words with s/z, I mean, words like: analyse/analyze, realise/realize, etc. I know that those words written with "s" are British, although I know that they can be written wit "z" in British English as well.

I'd like to know if British English people prefer to write those words with "s" or with "z" and, if they preferred "s", would they/you distinguish if a text is written by an American or not when you're reading a text with "z" (if there aren't another words like colour/color, etc., of course, which could give you a clue)?

Another question: if I had to write several words like those in a text, would it be important (gramatically) if I wrote some with "z" and some with "s"?

These questions could look like stupid ones, but I'm very interested in your answers. Thanks. :)

poli July 01, 2010 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 87632)
There are words that can be written in a different way in British and American English, above all these words with s/z, I mean, words like: analyse/analyze, realise/realize, etc. I know that those words written with "s" are British, although I know that they can be written wit "z" in British English as well.
S√* se puede pero todo el mundo van a creer que seas americano
I'd like to know if British English people prefer to write those words with "s" or with "z" and, if they preferred "s", would they/you distinguish if a text is written by an American or not when you're reading a text with "z" (if there aren't another words like colour/color, etc., of course, which could give you a clue)?
S√*, uno se puede escribir con un "accento" ingl√©s o americano.
Another question: if I had to write several words like those in a text, would it be important (gramatically) if I wrote some with "z" and some with "s"?
Siempre es mejor estar consistente.
These questions could look like stupid ones, but I'm very interested in your answers. Thanks. :)

Ingl√©s bien hablado o sea brit√°nico o americano es casi igual menos peque√Īas difer√©ncias como el modo que deletreamos o pronunciamos unas palabras. Las diferencias se ponen m√°s promenente (y interesante) cuando el ingl√©s es menos bien hablado y con accentos regionales.

hermit July 01, 2010 07:10 AM

Hi Irmamar - I have an online student of English in Maylasia where they
use BrE. When editing her articles for publication I am careful to use ONLY BrE spelling for consistency...

Perikles July 01, 2010 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 87632)
I know that those words written with "s" are British, although I know that they can be written wit "z" in British English as well.

Another question: if I had to write several words like those in a text, would it be important (gramatically) if I wrote some with "z" and some with "s"?

There is no clearly correct answer to this question because we don't have grammar police.

The long answer for BrE is that all these words are derived from the Greek ending -zein, so any word taken directly from the Greek can be s or z.

Words taken from French, however, who have systematically adopted the s for the Greek zeta, have a compulsory s in English: advertise, advise, apprise, arise, chastise, circumcise, comprise, compromise, demise, devise, disenfranchise, disguise, enterprise, excise, exercise, franchise, improvise, incise, merchandise, prise, revise, supervise, surmise, surprise, televise.

The short answer is that nobody really knows, so do what you like, except I think it would look odd if mixed in a sentence. Select one or the other, but don't mix. :)

AngelicaDeAlquezar July 01, 2010 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 87637)
The short answer is that nobody really knows, so do what you like, except I think it would look odd if mixed in a sentence. Select one or the other, but don't mix. :)

*sigh* Hete ah√*. :worried:

JPablo July 01, 2010 09:51 AM

Y 'heta' all√°. :wicked: :lol:

pjt33 July 01, 2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 87632)
I'd like to know if British English people prefer to write those words with "s" or with "z" and, if they preferred "s", would they/you distinguish if a text is written by an American or not when you're reading a text with "z" (if there aren't another words like colour/color, etc., of course, which could give you a clue)?

Another question: if I had to write several words like those in a text, would it be important (gramatically) if I wrote some with "z" and some with "s"?

I strongly prefer to write them with an 's'. Use of a 'z' is suggestive of en-us but less so than 'color'. Consistency is good.

CrOtALiTo July 01, 2010 05:38 PM

Irmamar.

My teacher taught me I could use the word S instead of Z, because it's very used for the American people in the United Stated, but I have asked here in the forum time before and the people prefer use the Z ( Realize ). Although they are correct in English and it doesn't affect the word, also I could to say it's a clue of the word you want to use, because literally you can use them in both cases.

Realize, Realise, although the orographic corrector, always highlight me the phrase Realise wrote with the letter S, then well I believe each person have the capacity to decide above what word should to use.

JPablo July 02, 2010 01:15 AM

Do you really sink we zhould worry about this izzue? :wicked:

Just kidding. I agree with all the above... and most likely, apply the consistency point mentioned, and "When in Rome, do as Romans do;" when in Oxford, do as Oxfordians do; when in Haaavaaad, do as Haaavaaadians do... and you may become a plugging success!

pjt33 July 02, 2010 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPablo (Post 87727)
...when in Oxford, do as Oxfordians do...

You could start by calling them Oxonians :p

(Well, there may be some disagreement over whether Oxonians applies to people from Oxford or just members of the university, but I don't think "Oxfordians" is common currency).

irmamar July 02, 2010 01:32 AM

What does "en-us" mean? :thinking:

OK, thank you everybody. I asked this question because maybe (I'm not sure yet) next year I'm going to study American Literature. The teacher said that we can write the exam in American or British English, but never mix. However, this year I've studied that some words ending in -ise (in BrE) are able to be transformed into -ize, and that would be correct (in BrE, of course). An example was "realize", which I have seen with "z" in BrE texts (and which I often write with "z"). I am worried because if I'm writing my exam in BrE (for instance, "colour"/"color" is a word which appears often in the text) and I write some word with "z" (not all of them, just one or two) I'd like to know if my teacher could mark those words as American words and... (well, I don't know how to say in English "bajar mi puntuación"). :thinking: :worried:

Thanks again. :)

JPablo July 02, 2010 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjt33 (Post 87728)
You could start by calling them Oxonians :p

(Well, there may be some disagreement over whether Oxonians applies to people from Oxford or just members of the university, but I don't think "Oxfordians" is common currency).

Oops! You're right. Thank you for letting me know. It reminds me "los vallisoletanos" :)
In Cambridge, then, do as the Cambridgeans :?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 87730)
What does "en-us" mean? :thinking:
(well, I don't know how to say in English "bajar mi puntuación"). :thinking: :worried:
Thanks again. :)

US English, I believe.
Probably you could say, "lower my score".

That's E-Z. :)

Perikles July 02, 2010 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjt33 (Post 87728)
You could start by calling them Oxonians :p

(Well, there may be some disagreement over whether Oxonians applies to people from Oxford or just members of the university).

The OED gives both, but usually the university.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPablo (Post 87738)
In Cambridge, then, do as the Cambridgeans :?: :thumbsdown:

Cantabrigians. :thumbsup:

JPablo July 02, 2010 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 87739)
The OED gives both, but usually the university.

Cantabrigians. :thumbsup:

Thank you, Perikles. Reminds me of the "c√°ntabros", but that's another tribe.

irmamar August 05, 2010 04:37 AM

I take this thread again because casually I've found the following page, where they say that "-ize" ending is correct in British English. What do you think?

I'm sorry, soy pesada por naturaleza. :D

Perikles August 05, 2010 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 90770)
What do you think?

I think the article is exactly right. :thumbsup:

There is an interesting comment about analyse

poli August 05, 2010 06:55 AM

I prefer ..ize because it more-closely resembles the word as it is pronounced.

irmamar August 05, 2010 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 90779)
I prefer ..ize because it more-closely resembles the word as it is pronounced.

No se me hab√*a ocurrido :thinking: . Buena idea, Poli. :thumbsup: :)

pjt33 August 05, 2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 90770)
I take this thread again because casually I've found the following page, where they say that "-ize" ending is correct in British English. What do you think?

I'm sorry, soy pesada por naturaleza. :D

It's not incorrect, but I think it's less common than -ise. Picking a few common words and running them through BNC:

Organise: 60.5%
Realise: 64.0%
Civilised: 57.3%
Recognise: 63.3%

irmamar August 06, 2010 03:13 AM

Yes, I know it, but there is a sentence which has attracted my attention:

Quote:

Many incorrectly regard -ize as American English, though it has been in use in English since the 16th century.
I've seen/heard/read Spanish people saying too technical or cultivated words deliberately to show their high linguistic level, without realising that sometimes they sound ridiculous. A veces, demasiado celo es peligroso. ;)

JPablo August 06, 2010 02:27 PM

Well, it is what you call "hyper-correction" as in "bacalado de Bilbado" instead of the correct "bacalao de Bilbao"... :)


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