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-   -   A río revuelto, ganancia de pescadores (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=12358)

aleCcowaN January 14, 2012 03:35 AM

A río revuelto, ganancia de pescadores
 
I'm looking for its English equivalent -which is not "fishing in troubled waters"-.

Our saying -become an idiom- implies that only outsiders have sure winnings when a civil war or turmoil arise, or any internal conflict in a family, company or group emerge.

Unlike the phrase in English, no risk or chance is associated with those "pescadores".

Perikles January 14, 2012 04:39 AM

I suspect there is no alternative to

The devil loves to fish in troubled waters

which is a quotation from John Trapp in his commentary on the bible. His quotations have infiltrated English to such an extent that an alternative is unlikely, though of course I could be wrong.

Glen January 14, 2012 06:08 PM

I have heard it as Every cloud has a silver lining but do not necessarily agree, since to me at least, it's a way of expressing how opportunistic people take advantage of others who have fallen on hard times. No corresponding English idiom comes to mind right away, but perhaps a Spanish one would be - correct me if I'm wrong - En tiempo de remolino, sube la basura.

chileno January 14, 2012 08:31 PM

The wise take advantage of turmoil.

Troubled waters, fisherman's gain.

Perikles January 15, 2012 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen (Post 120770)
I have heard it as Every cloud has a silver lining but do not necessarily agree, since to me at least, it's a way of expressing how opportunistic people take advantage of others who have fallen on hard times.

I find that a really odd interpretation, to be honest. It's generally understood that no matter how bad things are, they will get better.

aleCcowaN January 15, 2012 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 120745)
I suspect there is no alternative to

The devil loves to fish in troubled waters

which is a quotation from John Trapp in his commentary on the bible. His quotations have infiltrated English to such an extent that an alternative is unlikely, though of course I could be wrong.

Yes, thanks, that's about the meaning. I've seen "fishing in troubled waters" as a standalone idiom meaning "trying to get something from a conflict" which looks as making hay. The Spanish idiom tries to warn on the deleterious effects of intestine conflicts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen (Post 120770)
I have heard it as Every cloud has a silver lining but do not necessarily agree, since to me at least, it's a way of expressing how opportunistic people take advantage of others who have fallen on hard times. No corresponding English idiom comes to mind right away, but perhaps a Spanish one would be - correct me if I'm wrong - En tiempo de remolino, sube la basura.

I always regarded that idiom as Perikles told. I heard it first time in Paul Williams' render of "Lucky Old Sun", when I was a kid:

"Good Lord of mine
Can't you see I'm tired
Tears are in my eyes
Send down that cloud with a silver lining
Take me to paradise"

Later I learnt it was something similar to "it's an ill wind that blows nobody any good". But, that's the problem with idioms from one language to another: they seem to be standing on a different point of view and having different contexts in mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 120774)
Troubled waters, fisherman's gain.

Would be that understood as a proverb? I googled it and find it to be a literal translation of the Spanish idiom. Even a page in Greek which title started with "Argentina" or a word derived from it (Αργεντινή).

chileno January 15, 2012 06:54 AM

Oh, you are looking for an equivalent proverb.

I don't think it is a proverb or recognized as such.

poli January 16, 2012 07:22 AM

It is true that not all idioms translate, although obviously many do.
A close one in English to the Argentinian idiom is: to the victors go the
spoils.:hmm:

The difference it that the victor may have faced danger as well.

:idea:The term fat cat refers to a person who profits from others' toil and
trouble. So you may hear something like: we lost our sons and daughters to the war
while that fat cat CEO of (fill in the blank) made millions in profit at our expense.

aleCcowaN January 17, 2012 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 120800)
It is true that not all idioms translate, although obviously many do.
A close one in English to the Argentinian idiom is: to the victors go the
spoils.:hmm:

"Los despojos pertenecen al vencedor" -or more informally "el ganador se queda con el botín"- points to one of the outcomes of open confrontation. The idiom "a río revuelto, ganancia de pescadores" points that whether a civil war or a family feud, those who benefit are not those who strive the most but they are probably outsiders holding a comfortable position.

This is a general Spanish idiom. It's in many books available through Google books, including "Colección de refranes, adagios y locuciones proverbiales" by Antonio Jiménez, 1828, Spain. It's available as a free E-book.

poli January 17, 2012 06:34 AM

In that case the pescadores are clearly the English equivalents of fat cats. The whole phrase may not be commonly used but the circumstance of the pescador certainly is.

Here's a wiki article about the term:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_cat_(term)

further illustration
http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/sen.../fat_cats.html


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