Meaning Changes - Ser vs. Estar
 

I wonder if it would be a good idea to make a new sticky thread (or a vocabulary by theme thread?) looking at the changes in meaning that can happen when exchanging ser vs. estar + an adjective or participle. Let me give a few of the examples that I have run across for a start:

aburrido
ser aburrido = to be boring
estar aburrido = to be bored

callado
ser callado = to be soft-spoken
estar callado = to be silent

nervioso
ser nervioso = to be neurotic
estar nervioso = to be jittery

listo
ser listo = to be clever
estar listo = to be ready

vivo
ser vivo = to be vivacious
estar vivo = to be alive

atento
ser atento = to be courteous
estar atento = to be attentive

consciente
ser consciente = to be aware
estar consciente = to be conscious (awake)

decidido
ser decidido = to be resolute
estar decidido = to be decided

despierto
ser despierto = to be alert; sharp
estar despierto = to be awake

enfermo
ser enfermo = to be an invalid, sickly
estar enfermo = to be sick

interesado
ser interesado = to be self-serving
estar interesado = to be interested

loco
ser loco = to be mad, upset
estar loco = to be scatterbrained

rico
ser rico = to be rich
estar rico = to be delicious

torpe
ser torpe = to be slow-witted
estar torpe = to be clumsy, awkward

verde
ser verde = to be green
estar verde = to be unripe

grave
ser grave = to be serious
estar grave = to be seriously ill

moreno
ser moreno = to be dark-skinned
estar moreno = to be tanned

pálido
ser pálido = to be pale-skinned
estar pálido = to be pale

pesado
ser pesado = to be heavy
estar pesado = to be tiresome

seguro
ser seguro = to be safe
estar seguro = to be certain

Are these correct? What notable others have I forgotten? Thoughts?

They look good to me.

What about: agrio; blanco; bueno; ciego; decente; fuerte; guapo; joven; nuevo; oscuro; orgulloso; perezoso; rojo; soltero; viejo; cansado; considerado; despistado; divertido; parado ?

Some of these have the same meaning except that with ser it is permanent and with estar just temporary. Some have important differences for example guapo. :)

Would you give the meanings of these with ser & estar.... I can't find all of them in my dictionaries..... :)

*sigh*

agrio
ser agrio: to be sauer (by nature)
estar agrio: to taste sauer

blanco
ser blanco: to be white
estar blanco: to be pale (from fear)

bueno
ser bueno: to be good
estar bueno: to be healthy

ciego
ser ciego: to be blind (from birth)
estar ciego: to be blinded (by the sun)

decente
ser decente: to be decent respectable
estar decente: to look decent

fuerte
ser fuerte: to be strong
estar fuerte: to be good at something

guapo/a
ser guapo/a: to be handsome, pretty
estar guapo/a: to look nice (even though normally ugly)

joven
ser joven: to be young
estar joven: to look young

nuevo
ser nuevo: to be new
estar nuevo: to look new

oscuro
ser oscuro: to be dark (in a room)
estar oscuro: to be dark (without sun)

orgulloso
ser orgulloso: to be a proud person
estar orgulloso: to be proud of something

perezoso
ser perezoso: to be lazy by nature
estar perezoso: to be lazy (in a particular case)

rojo
ser rojo: to be red
estar rojo: to blush (with embarrassment)

soltero
ser soltero: to be unmarried
estar soltero: to be still unmarried

viejo
ser viejo: to be old
estar viejo: to look old

cansado*
ser cansado: to be tiring
estar cansado: to be tired

considerado*
ser considerado: to be considerate
estar considerado: to be highly regarded

despistado*
ser despistado: to be absent-minded
estar despistado: to be daydreaming, miles away

divertido*
ser divertido: to be entertaining
estar divertido: to be in a good mood

parado*
ser parado: to be shy
estar parado: to be out of work

*=past participles

:crazy::crazy: Please correct any mistakes, anyone

ser nervioso = to be highly strung

ser vivaz = to be vivacious
ser vivo = to be clever, sharp

ser rico = to be rich
ser rico = to be tasty, delicious as a general opinion or on a regular basis ("estar rico" is only for today's meal)

ser torpe = to be clumsy, awkward (on a regular basis)
estar torpe = ??? (temporarily; when you are sedated or under the effect of alcohol)

ser pesado/ estar pesado ---> it can perfectly be the other way round.

Some of the terms have different meanings according to what I hear.

Ser vivo means to be a real sharp character, but not in a positive way--like an accomplished cheater.

... and if I'm not mistaking :Ser pesado means to be a real bore. or a real pain in the neck.



Words mean different things in different contexts though.

We say "no es inteligente, pero es vivo", that is, smart enough to make his/her intelligence to work for him/her, what may include some ability to take advantage of any circumstance. If intelligence is the ability to perform complex reasonings and manage a huge bunch of information, un vivo hasn't a great deal. But, if intelligence is the ability to quickly adapt to the environment -social, natural, technological- un vivo is very intelligent.

I agree.

Thanks, all - I love the discussion!! :) (And thanks, especially, Perikles, for running those definitions for me/us!) :kiss:

Those in blue just show basic features of ser and estar and many adjectives and verboids could be used.

About the rest

estar bueno = healthy? it may be edible, sane, high quality, or it may be "well".

ser fuerte = estar fuerte = to be good at something + basic distinction between ser and estar.

estar joven = to look and act younger that his/er age

estar nuevo = being in mint condition or without signal of being worn or wasted by use or time

estar o(b)scuro = .... with insufficient light, in shadows

ponerse rojo = to blush (with embarrassment)
estar rojo = to show a reddish visage, like bloated / to be sunburnt

ser viejo = estar viejo = to be old
estar viejo = to be too old / to look and act older than his/er real age

estar considerado = to be regarded as (it's an incomplete phrase)
estar bien considerado = ser bien considerado = to be highly-regarded

estar despistado = to be muddled

estar divertido = to be having fun

"sauer" - is that a BrE spelling? In the US, we spell it: "sour".... :thinking:

:lol: We do too in BrE, what I wrote was German (as in Sauerkraut). I confess I was using a table of ser/estar differences from a Spanish grammar book written in German. (That is why one or two of the verbs don't really count, but they were in the list because it makes a difference when translated into German.)

There are some words in German and English which have almost identical pronunciation (like sour/sauer) and being a little dyslexic, I often confuse the two languages. :crazy:

No sé si éste sea útil o no, pero una chica mexicana con quien chateo en Skype acaba de poner este vídeo en línea:

I might change this usage a bit:

ser: Ella es una niña guapísima. (a statement of fact)
estar: "Niña, ¡qué guapa estás!" (looks especially beautiful tonight)

same 'niña', but special occasion.

Orthographic corrections, for those who might be learning. :)

It reminds of an observation I have made. If a woman tells a man "You look handsome today" the man says "thank you". If a man tells a woman "You look beautiful today" the woman says "What do I normally look like?".

I've always taken it as the difference in the ways that the sexes hear a statement, not in any way a comment on the nature of the English phrase. Most men figure out to omit the word "today", as it can accidentally turn an intended compliment into an insult.

I would like to know from a native Spanish speaking woman how the phrase "estas guapa" would be interpreted. Would you take it as a backhanded insult, or as a compliment.

Good question. My guess is that it would be a compliment, an observation of her taste in clothes, hairstyle, makeup, etc., irrespective of her underlying ugliness/beauty.

But I'm guessing how a woman would react to something, and I'm old enough to know better..... :eek::D

It seems to me that if one knows that a woman has intentionally dressed up for some reason, then "estás guapa" would suggest that one has noticed and appreciated her effort. Tone of voice and expression undoubtedly help, too.

Interspersing (is it that?) "...especialmente..." (or "...particularmente..." in Spanish) would do the trick, both languages ;)

I agree with wrholt.

If you say "estás guapa", it means you're making a compliment on how the woman looks at a certain moment. Same for "te ves bien/guapa/bonita..."
All of these express a compliment for a moment in time.

If you say "eres guapa/bonita/linda...", you're making a compliment on the permanent features of the woman.

Most women I know, however, if you say "estás guapa", "qué bien te ves" or so, would take it as a compliment and be glad that something made them look better at that moment.

It seems as if "estás guapa" would be the correct compliment for a coworker. An added especialmente wouldn't hurt if it is your wife or girlfriend.

There is a decent Wikipedia article that states:
The Spanish verb "ser" is etymologically related to the English words "essence" and "is", and estar with "state", "status", "standing", "stance" and "stay".

Well, I would be careful saying "estas guapa hoy" to a co-worker.....

You know about sexual harrassment and all....:footinmouth:

It is a shame that one can't compliment another without worrying if you are politically correct or not.

I would accept a compliment like that any day.:rose:

Perhaps the safest thing is never to make a comment on appearances. But it seems as if Latino culture is less concerned about equating professionalism with being gender neutral.

Not all men are egocentric maniacs. Sometimes a simple compliment helps your confidence if you are nervous before a presentation. They don't all interpret "nice tie" to mean "she want's me".

I did notice that when I lived in Mexico, "Gordo" was a fairly common nickname, while "Fatty" is almost non-existent in Anglo culture. It seems as if the culture allows people to say it with some affection, and not only use it as an insult.

That is so true!

I guess we are more uptight here in the states about how we look or how others perceive us.

:eek::whistling:

I would be careful using ESTAR BUENO/A when speaking of people. In my experience, when you say.

"Miguel está bueno." You are saying Miguel is physically attractive. In other words: "He's hot."

Of course, if he were just sick and you were referring to his health, it would be understood as healthy.

I agree, although "bueno" in the sense of healthy is (too) colloquial.

Colloquial:
--¿Y Miguel, sigue malo?
--No, ya está bueno.

Non-colloquial:
--¿Y Miguel, sigue enfermo?
--No, ya está bien.

Pero se presta para malas interpretaciones... :rolleyes:

Thanks for your input Angelica. Yes, you're right. I didn't think about this before, but I would say "está bien" when speaking of someone's health.

Unfortunately only with ser and tener, but still entertaining...
http://www.digitaldialects.com/Spanish/tobetohave.htm

What a great discussion. I'd add one more thing:
- Estar perezoso: To have a bad attitude and unwilling to do something (momentarily)
- Ser perezoso: To be lazy (all the time)

Are there meaning changes with all emotions if you use ser instead of estar?

Like:
Estar feliz
Ser feliz

Estar enojado
Ser enojado

Estar triste
Ser triste

Yep. If you say 'Estoy feliz' you're saying you're happy right now. If you say 'Soy feliz' you're saying you're a happy person. :)

"Ser" is used when you're talking about the identity or an intrinsic characteristic of a person; "estar" is used for an attribute that doesn't belong to the person's personality description.

It's rather hard to imagine when I'd say of a person "es enojado", because "enojado" usually implies a specific situation for which one is upset. Nevertheless, there are people who can be described as being "colérico, irritable, iracundo" to indicate that this person is always angry or that they get easily angry, and this is a trait of his own personality.

If I say "soy feliz", it means I identify happiness with my own identity, but if I say "estoy feliz", it implies that something happened to me (something that is not a part of myself) that made me happy for a while.

If someone says "Juan está triste", one must assume there is something that happened to him that made Juan sad; but if there's someone who says "Juan es triste", they're probably talking about a melancholic rather dramatic personality.

Small example:
You have just met Mr. López, and you describe him: "El señor López es calvo y gordo."
Mr. López' brother describes him: "Mi hermano está calvo y gordo."
The difference in the chosen verbs is because if you have just met Mr. López, you may assume (consciously or not) that he has always been bald and fat, while for his brother, who knew him when he had long hair and was thin, these are characteristics that do not belong to the identity of his brother. :)

I hope this helps.

Very helpful, thank you.

Rico could be an adjective about rich and also about an ice-cream está rico.

The linking verbs in Spanish ser, estar, parecer convey with ser a durative sense and with estar transitory effect as a general rule :
He is foolish and he is being foolish.

Estar enojado he is angry at the moment
Ser enojado we say in colombia es un cascarrabias (grouch) we don't use es enojado.

Estar triste he is sad at the moment, now, state

Ser triste he is a sad person his usual character.