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-   -   En una de las sentencias más esperadas de los últimos años (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=21741)

Perikles February 17, 2017 12:24 PM
En una de las sentencias más esperadas de los últimos años
 
I have never understood this use of esperar as for "to hope" and "to expect". This sentence is part of a newspaper article on the sentence passed on the husband of Cristina de Borbón.

If it means "a judgment eagerly awaited", why can't it mean "an expected judgment"? (because the idiot was clearly guilty) :thinking:

Edit: link

AngelicaDeAlquezar February 17, 2017 12:38 PM
People were eager to know what the final decision would be; they both expected and hoped that "Urdanga" would be sentenced and jailed, but there was some uncertainty for fear of influence peddling that might have him cleared.
...And some others hoped but never expected the Infanta would be sentenced for the same reasons. ;)

Perikles February 18, 2017 03:29 AM
So are you saying that it is deliberately ambiguous (in English)?

I just can't understand why Spanish does not seem to differentiate clearly between "hope" and "expect", and I can't understand why I seem to be the only person in the universe who sees a problem here. :rolleyes:

AngelicaDeAlquezar February 20, 2017 01:11 PM
I'm not sure there is anything really ambiguous about it. For us, the verb inherently has these two meanings, so it's not like we'd stop and think whether it should be one notion or the other.
I kind of feel that the idea of anticipation or expectation dominates in this sentence, but I think I wouldn't have noticed if a translator would have used "awaited" instead of "anticipated" (my choice if I had been the translator) or "expected". :thinking:
But I understand what bothers you; it's probably like my own problem with "to know" or "to be". It took me long to come to terms with the fact that there is one verb for two separate notions in my head. :)

Perikles February 20, 2017 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 162628)
I'm not sure there is anything really ambiguous about it. For us, the verb inherently has these two meanings, so it's not like we'd stop and think whether it should be one notion or the other.
I kind of feel that the idea of anticipation or expectation dominates in this sentence, but I think I wouldn't have noticed if a translator would have used "awaited" instead of "anticipated" (my choice if I had been the translator) or "expected". :thinking:
This is my problem - I see it as totally ambiguous. There is a clear distinction between "awaited" and "expected", but nobody seems to bother about it.

Awaited: waiting for the result without having any idea about the outcome

Expected: the outcome was as we thought it was going to be

How can this not be a problem? :thinking:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 162628)
But I understand what bothers you; it's probably like my own problem with "to know" or "to be". It took me long to come to terms with the fact that there is one verb for two separate notions in my head. :)
Which language are you talking of? :thinking:

AngelicaDeAlquezar February 20, 2017 02:07 PM
"To know" may mean "conocer" or "saber", and "to be" means "ser" or "estar". It was funny when I started learning because I couldn't understand why such different actions would correspond to the same verb in English.

Quote:
How can this not be a problem? :thinking:
Well, it is definitely not a problem for a Spanish speaker because the verb has those meanings (and probably two or three more) and unless we have to explain the exact meaning of the sentence, we don't stop and dissect the verb. The translator might have a problem though, because of the fact that the public had to wait for the verdict to be pronounced and people also were expectant about it. Including both verbs would result in a clumsy sentence; that's why I'd go with "anticipated", which for me is closer to "esperar", as it also kind of mixes "to await" and "to expect". :thinking:

Perikles February 21, 2017 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 162630)
"To know" may mean "conocer" or "saber", and "to be" means "ser" or "estar". It was funny when I started learning because I couldn't understand why such different actions would correspond to the same verb in English.


Well, it is definitely not a problem for a Spanish speaker because the verb has those meanings (and probably two or three more) and unless we have to explain the exact meaning of the sentence, we don't stop and dissect the verb. The translator might have a problem though, because of the fact that the public had to wait for the verdict to be pronounced and people also were expectant about it. Including both verbs would result in a clumsy sentence; that's why I'd go with "anticipated", which for me is closer to "esperar", as it also kind of mixes "to await" and "to expect". :thinking:
But the difference between your problem with the English verbs and mine with the Spanish one is that yours do not present an ambiguity. Not all the time, but there is an overlap with esperar which I find confusing, and I'm puzzled why this does not appear to bother other people.

How would you say 1) I expect to die tomorrow and 2) I hope to die tomorrow

? :thinking:

pjt33 February 21, 2017 01:14 PM
I agree with Angélica that the situation is analogous between esperar and know. I would add that both have caused me headaches when translating.

When translating expect into Spanish I frequently use a circumlocution. My intuition is that tener expectativas and tener una expectación allow a moderate level of precision. I'd be interested to hear what native speakers think about that.

Here, when translating into English I would favour awaited over hoped for on the grounds that if the editor wanted to make clear that the latter was the salient interpretation they could instead have used anhelada.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 162638)
How would you say 1) I expect to die tomorrow and 2) I hope to die tomorrow?
1) Presiento que mañana me muera. 2) Ojalá me muera mañana.

aleCcowaN February 21, 2017 03:05 PM
I expect to die tomorrow = Mi expectativa es morir mañana.

zuma022 February 21, 2017 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt33 (Post 162645)
I agree with Angélica that the situation is analogous between esperar and know. I would add that both have caused me headaches when translating.
.
I agree, it's exactly the same. The same way you cannot understand that to know confuses native Spanish speakers who suddenly only need one verb for two different situations, is why you see ambiguity in esperar. Every language has these quirky and confusing exceptions that pose no problems for native speakers because it simply is the way it is. If there have never been two verbs (like know-conocer/saber) then you don't feel like you need another one. 😋

All that is to say, you're not alone and every language learner has struggled with similar things.


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