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-   -   Compound Tenses (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=8629)

laepelba August 03, 2010 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 90447)
It must be the heat - I could not see the 'problem' until you changed its colour. Sorry - color. :)

Oh, really? I was certain that you had written it like that on purpose. ("habías escrito" o "hubiste escrito"....)

CrOtALiTo August 03, 2010 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 90460)
Oh, really? I was certain that you had written it like that on purpose. ("habías escrito" o "hubiste escrito"....)

Is hubiese escrito:)

Did you want to mean that?

irmamar August 04, 2010 01:56 AM

When you are studying verbs, you're studying "conjugación verbal", all the forms a verb is able to show depending on some categories (tiempo, persona, número, modo, aspecto, etc.). Verbal compound forms belong to that "conjugación", and they are formed with "haber".

"Perífrasis verbales" are two verbs together working as a unity. One of the verbs is conjugated, the other is a non-personal form (infinitivo, gerundio o participio), with a link (preposition, conjunction) or not. For instance: tener que hacer (tengo que hacer, tienes que hacer, etc.), deber salir (debo salir, debes salir, etc.), estar + haciendo (estoy haciendo, estás haciendo, etc.). Verbal compound forms are also "perífrasis verbales" (he comido, has hecho, etc.). But when you study those "perífrasis" you have already studied conjugation, so you will learn that verbal compound forms are a kind of perífrasis and you don't need to learn them, because you already know them. There are a large quantity of "perífrasis" divided into some types, but you can use many verbs in a non-personal form, while the conjugated ones are not so many (estar, haber, tener que, ir a, andar, seguir, dejar, ser, etc.).

Similary, passive voice is also a "perífrasis verbal", but you won't study passive voice with "perífrasis", since it deserves a separate lesson (like verbal compound forms). When you study "perífrasis", you'll be told that passive voice is a special kind of perífrasis, but you'll already know it. ;)

In English I have studied continuous forms of verbs while I was studying another tenses, but I have never done that when studying Spanish. I guess the reason is that we don't have a "presente continuo" or a "pasado continuo" (and when I hear those terms, I'm sure that they are anglicisms), we use that sort of "perífrasis" instead. Well, they are grammar matters. :)

chileno August 04, 2010 07:35 AM

Irma:

I think this explanation will satisfy Lou Ann's mathematical mind perfectly.

irmamar August 04, 2010 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 90578)
Irma:

I think this explanation will satisfy Lou Ann's mathematical mind perfectly.

Sure? :lol: :lol: :lol:

laepelba August 04, 2010 08:15 AM

Okay, you two, sometimes it scares me when people I've never met know me so well. LOL!! Thanks for that in depth explanation, Irma. I still don't like it ... but can live with it. :)

irmamar August 04, 2010 08:25 AM

I'm sure you'll be able to understand it. I've been told that I have a logical mind, too logical even. But grammar and the way of learning it is not a problem for me. ;) :D

laepelba August 04, 2010 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 90611)
I'm sure you'll be able to understand it. I've been told that I have a logical mind, too logical even. But grammar and the way of learning it is not a problem for me. ;) :D

Oh, I KNOW you have a logical mind. That is why I'm always SO glad when you jump in with answers to my nit picky grammar questions. In fact, I typically ask them with you in mind. :) It's not that I don't understand. I just don't like it. I think I need to go work on some Algebra.... ;)

irmamar August 04, 2010 08:38 AM

Why don't you like it? It's beautiful like a bright white flower in a green field (algebra is not like this, by the way). :D

laepelba August 04, 2010 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 90620)
Why don't you like it? It's beautiful like a bright white flower in a green field (algebra is not like this, by the way). :D

My dislike is just because I don't see such a huge difference between "estar + gerundio" and "haber + participio".

Given that I DO understand ALL of these explanations, and that I CAN accept them, I will choose to live with my "dislike" of this one tiny point, because I KNOW that it will NOT hamper my ability to learn to speak Spanish. :) Thanks for all of your contributions!!


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