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-   -   El colmo... (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=1222)

Jane April 30, 2008 06:04 PM

El colmo...
 
¡Esto es el colmo!
I know that here in Spain colmo means something like the limit or the last straw, but i´d like to know if it´s used differently in other spanish speaking countries. And if yes, how is it used?

Tomisimo April 30, 2008 09:01 PM

It's used pretty much the same in México.
Es el cooooolmo que te hayas equivocado siendo tan inteligente.
Es el colmo que siendo carpintero no te puedes hacer una puerta.
that's the limit ... that's utterly ridiculous are two good translations.

También he escuchado por ejemplo:
Es el colmo de la elegancia.
It's the height of elegance.

Alfonso May 01, 2008 04:06 AM

Hi, Jane,
You have some more information about el colmo here, without going away from Tomísimo.
The examples David has given to us are also very commonly used in Spain.

poli May 01, 2008 05:46 AM

In English we use epitome (pronounced epítomy) and the height where Spanish speakers use colmo. I notice that epitome is also a Spanish word. Is it synonimous to colmo in Spanish?

Examples:
This is the epitome of beauty/ This is the height of beauty
This is the epitome of nonsense/ This is the height of nonsense

Alfonso May 01, 2008 08:00 AM

Epítome is completely different from colmo, as epítome is a really formal / academic way to mean abstract (of an article, essay, etc.).

Epítome es sinónimo de resumen, pero se usa mucho más resumen. La etimología griega de epítome lo convierte en una palabra que casi sólo se usa en el ámbito de la Filología.

Alfonso May 01, 2008 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 7460)
This is the epitome of beauty
This is the epitome of nonsense

I understand epitome is used in the previous sentences with the nuance of abstract, which is its Greek meaning. Is epitome commonly used in English?

Elaina May 01, 2008 08:11 AM

The word itself, "epitome" is not commonly used.

Elaina

Rusty May 01, 2008 08:12 AM

Yes, it is very commonly used.

She is the epitome of beauty. He is the epitome of a hard worker.
But, 'he is at the height of his career' is more common than 'he is at the epitome of his career.'

poli May 01, 2008 08:12 AM

Yes,epitome is common. Because it has more than two syllables less educated people are less likely to use it, but just about everyone understands it. It's common. You can use essence too.
This is the essence of stupidity
This is the essence of brilliance

Se puede usar esencia así. Ejemplo: Eso es la esencia de lo absurdo.

Elaina May 01, 2008 08:14 AM

To tell you the truth, I have not heard that word used in years. I've heard essence, height, etc but not epitome.

Maybe I live in the "wrong part of town".

Elaina

Iris May 01, 2008 08:14 AM

Epitome is a thing or person that shows a stated quality to a very great degree: His behaviour was the epitome of bad manners= He had horrible manners.
You can also use the verb to epitomize: The strike epitomizes what is wrong with industrial relations in this country.
The meaning of the Spanish epítome is, I think, totally different: it's a summary of a long work.

Rusty May 01, 2008 08:27 AM

I believe these are other ways to use el colmo, in its negative sense (meaning the last straw):

I am at my wit's end.
I am at/on the brink (here, of a nervous breakdown, of quitting my job, etc.).
That was my last nerve. (You're on my last nerve.)
That was the straw that broke the camel's back. (Es la gota que colma el vaso.)
That took me over the edge.

poli May 01, 2008 08:36 AM

As you can see epitome and epitomize are, to my surprise, regional. Where I come from it's used, but where Alice had her adventure, it's best to find an alternate word: the essence, the height, perhaps prime example.(el ejemplar)

Alfonso May 01, 2008 08:37 AM

Por cierto, el colmo de los colmos es perder un imperdible.
Y el colmo de un enano, que la policía le diga ¡alto!

Los chistes del colmo son todo un género.

Rusty May 01, 2008 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7487)
Por cierto, el colmo de los colmos es perder un imperdible.
Y el colmo de un enano, que la policía le diga ¡alto!

Los chistes del colmo son todo un género.


:D:D:D LOL (Laugh Out Loud)

Rusty May 01, 2008 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7487)
Por cierto, el colmo de los colmos es perder un imperdible.
Y el colmo de un enano, que la policía le diga ¡alto!

Los chistes del colmo son todo un género.

¿Sabéis cuál es el colmo de un ordenador? Tener miedo a los ratones.

Se encuentra otros chistes como estos here.

Tomisimo May 01, 2008 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfonso (Post 7487)
Los chistes del colmo son todo un género.

El colmo de un albañíl es que se llame Armando Paredes.

Alfonso May 02, 2008 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 7475)
Se puede usar esencia así. Ejemplo: Eso es la esencia de lo absurdo.:good:

Se puede, pero suena algo rebuscado. Es más habitual decir: Es el colmo del absurdo.

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 08:22 AM

Estoy de acuerdo que "epitome" es una palabra más o menos común escucharse en inglés. Algunas alternativas son:

embodiment (menos común pero se entiende)
- "She is the embodiment of high fashion. She always looks like she just walked off the cover of Cosmo."

personification
- "That guy is the personification of infidelity. Every time I see him, he's with some other woman. I don't know how to tell June."

walking definition
- "You, sir, would be the walking definition of laziness if you ever got up off your ass to do anything."

Pero debo decir que estos son limitados a las personas, y "epitome" tiene un sentido más amplio.

Rusty May 10, 2008 09:38 AM

In the same vein as walking definition, we sometimes say poster child, dicho que procede de los pósteres de niños desamparados, o lo que sea. Es otra manera de decir el vivo ejemplo, o el estándar.
- Kenny G. is the poster child of smooth music.
- Michael Jackson is the poster boy of too much plastic surgery.

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 10:18 AM

Y también se debe decir que poster child es lo más gracioso de esos ejemplos.

Alfonso May 10, 2008 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatitoverde (Post 8061)
Estoy de acuerdo que "epitome" es una palabra más o menos común escucharse en inglés.


Hola, Gatitoverde. Esta frase no funciona en español, pues no hay un nexo entre escucharse y el núcleo nominal palabra. Una buena opción sería:
  • Estoy de acuerdo con que es habitual escuchar en inglés la palabra "epitome".
Therefore, word order changes. I can't think of a sentence in good Spanish respectful with the word order you have proposed (note I'm using the perfect past tense, instead of the simple past, since you've warned to do it in other thread. Anyway, I think that, as it happens in Spanish, this is very stylistic subject which depends very often on the geographical origin of the speaker. We could discuss it other place).

I hope this will help you.

Jane May 10, 2008 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatitoverde (Post 8067)
Y también se debe decir que poster child es lo más gracioso de esos ejemplos.

Y se puede saber, por favor, porqué a ti lo parece gracioso?;)

Alfonso May 10, 2008 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jane (Post 8076)
¿Y se puede saber, por favor, por () qué te parece gracioso?;)

.....

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 12:58 PM

Maybe I don't understand "gracioso." I mean to say sarcastic or mocking. Picture the little girl on a UNICEF poster, looking up at the camera with big sad, hungry eyes, the epitome of need. This is the image I think of when I say poster child. As far as your tenses, Alfonso, you actually used present perfect (have/has + participle) when I had counseled using the pluperfect (had + pariciple) but otherwise you followed my suggestion perfectly. And forgive me the English, but I wanted to write a reply in a hurry, whereas Spanish takes me a little longer.

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 01:00 PM

And thanks very much for the corrections. I make a flashcard from every one.

Jane May 10, 2008 01:05 PM

Gracias Alfonso por corrigirme.
Gatito, I get the picture, but with my very limited Spanish, I think gracioso means funny or amusing.

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 01:17 PM

Well, that's kind of what I mean. It's funny because it's so mocking, but I do need some sort of native advice, y'all.

Alfonso May 10, 2008 01:22 PM

Thanks a lot, Gatitoverde!
You understood gracioso perfectly. It was Jane who asked you. I only corrected her post. Pls, don't be in hurry, and practise your Spanish as much as you can.
Yes, you spoke about pluperfect tense. But I thought there is a connection between not using pluperfect and not using present perfect, as it happens in Spanish. The phenomena is that some speakers, most of American Spanish speakers and a good portion of Spanish speakers from Spain, that's to say, the majority of Spanish speakers, simply don't use at all any compound tense.
I, as a Spaniard, from Madrid, usually use pretérito perfecto and pretérito pluscuamperfecto, but all my South American friends never use it. For an unknown reason, I feel more comfortable speaking English without using these corresponding tenses. Do you think this is wrong? Do you think this is acceptable somewhere in the English speaking countries?

Thanks a lot for your help!

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 01:34 PM

No, la verdad es que la mayoria de los americanos no conocen (¿conoce? ¿porque es "mayoria"?) las normas de su propio idioma ni los interesan, lamentablemente. Pero los más educados ya las conocen. Mi carrera en la universidad es "English" y por lo tanto, noto todas las reglas rotas. Pero necesito pensar en cuanto la gente acá usa el PP y el Pluperfect.

I guess a good way to put it is that, yes, they're used often enough, but you can get away without using them, and for the most part, people won't take exception or even notice.

gatitoverde May 10, 2008 10:13 PM

And I never meant to confuse the use of got as an auxillary verb with it's improper usage as a replacement for the past participle gotten. Honestly I was confused and trying to figure out why I've got worked in the one case but sounded improper in the other. That's why I made the comment. In hindsight, I agree with Rusty that as an auxillary verb, got is correctly used with have or has. But I stick by my guns in saying that if you replace your past participle with your preterite, as in I had ran and we had went, you sound like a moron.

Tomisimo May 14, 2008 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatitoverde (Post 8090)
No, la verdad es que la mayoria de los americanos no conocen (¿conoce? ¿porque es "mayoria"?) las normas de su propio idioma ni los interesan, lamentablemente. Pero los más educados ya las conocen. Mi carrera en la universidad es "English" y por lo tanto, noto todas las reglas rotas. Pero necesito pensar en cuanto la gente acá usa el PP y el Pluperfect.

I guess a good way to put it is that, yes, they're used often enough, but you can get away without using them, and for the most part, people won't take exception or even notice.

You're right about mayoría ... la mayoría de los americanos no conoce... is technically correct, however many native speakers break that rule and use conocen.

otras cositas..

... ni les interesan ...
... en cuanto a la gente acá ...

gatitoverde May 14, 2008 03:44 PM

Thank you for your always so respectful and succinct corrections.


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