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-   Grammar (http://forums.tomisimo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Compound Tenses (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=8629)

laepelba August 03, 2010 11:09 AM

Pero .... ¿Comó es "haber" un verbo auxiliar aunque "estar" no es...?

(Please know that I completely realize that we are "arguing" about semantics here....)

irmamar August 03, 2010 11:22 AM

Ser and estar are also verbos auxiliares. But they don't form compound forms in verbal tenses, but per*frasis verbales. :)

poli August 03, 2010 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irmamar (Post 90425)
Ser and estar are also verbos auxiliares. But they don't form compound forms in verbal tenses, but per*frasis verbales. :)

Ahora estoy confudido. No veo. No veo una gran diferencia entre la funcion de haber y estar en los siguientes frases: He salido y Esoy saliendo. Los dos verbos parecen auxiliario pero ¿estoy saliendo es un perifrasis verbal:thinking:?

This is why linguistics classes at school alway drove me crazy. I think there is a point where I stop understanding. Everyone has their limits I suppose.

laepelba August 03, 2010 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 90431)
Ahora estoy confudido. No veo. No veo una gran diferencia entre la funcion de haber y estar en los siguientes frases: He salido y Esoy saliendo. Los dos verbos parecen auxiliario pero ¿estoy saliendo es un perifrasis verbal:thinking:?

This is why linguistics classes at school alway drove me crazy. I think there is a point where I stop understanding. Everyone has their limits I suppose.

And THAT is why I was asking these questions. Again, I believe that in the end it's all about semantics, right?

Perikles August 03, 2010 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poli (Post 90408)
Perhaps when you the the word compound verb could be read
as subordinate verb. The verb haber is subordinate to the particple, because the meaning of the verb is in the particple.

I see the point, but haber is the only finite part of the verb, so you also argue that the non-finite part, the participle, is (grammatically) subordinate to it :). I think this is not getting us anywhere, because as far as I know, haber is always known as the auxiliary verb in these constructions. Other languages such as French and German use to have and also to be as auxiliary verbs in the active voice, depending on the participle.

laepelba August 03, 2010 12:18 PM

<<<....wondering how in the world a tiny little question I asked has turned into such a huge *discussion* about semantics...>>>

Perikles August 03, 2010 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 90435)
<<<....wondering how in the world a tiny little question I asked has turned into such a huge *discussion* about semantics...>>>

Well, that's the fun of turning over a stone - you never know what you may find underneath. :D:D

But seriously, it highlights the problem that terminology in languages is problematical.

laepelba August 03, 2010 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perikles (Post 90437)
But seriously, it highlights the problem that terminology in languages is problematical.

:thumbsup:

Perikles August 03, 2010 01:09 PM

It must be the heat - I could not see the 'problem' until you changed its colour. Sorry - color. :)

chileno August 03, 2010 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorenzo (Post 90358)
Yes, I see. I want to use/enjoy this site and my Spanish books.

Si, ya/lo veo. Quiero usar/disfrutar este sitio y mi libros de Español.

:):):)


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