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-   -   Verbs like "lavar", "cepillar", y "despertar" (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=2954)

laepelba January 30, 2009 05:01 PM

Verbs like "lavar", "cepillar", y "despertar"
 
I am currently learning about verbs that I think are called reflexive verbs. (Is that correct?) I have recently been introduced to the words "lavar", "cepillar" and "despertar". I am looking for a wide variety of examples of how each could be used.

Specifically:

1) LAVAR - If I understand this correctly, if someone is washing something, I just use "lavar". For example, "Él lava la camisa." But if someone is washing a part of oneself, you use the reflexive pronoun. For example, "Él se lava el pelo."

Are these examples correct? Is my thinking correct? Can you please give me more examples (a wide variety of ways of using "lavar")? Thank you!!

2) CEPILLAR - The only examples I've seen of "cepillar" are for brushing one's own teeth or hair. So, for example, "Él se cepilla el pelo." Or, "Él se cepilla los dientes."

But, if I wanted to say that someone is brushing someone else's hair, do I say "La mujer se cepilla el pelo de niña."?? Is there a case where you use "cepillar" without the reflexive pronoun? May I also have some varied examples of the use of "cepillar"? (Again, thank you!!)

3) DESPERTAR - I get the basic examples of the use of "despertar". I understand "El hombre despierta a su esposa." And I understand why you use the word "se" in the following sentence: "El hombre se despierta."

But would I also say "Me despierto" for "I wake up"? Would I say "Te despiertas" for "you wake up"? What about "Te despierto" for "I wake you up". Does that work? Or would it be "Despierto a ti."?? May I also have some varied examples of the use of "despertar"? (THANK YOU THANK YOU!!)

One final request: Can you also give me some examples of other verbs that behave like these? AND, is there an article (or another forum post) here on Tomísimo that would also answer my questions here?

AGAIN, thank you so much!! ¡Muchas gracias OTRA VEZ!

Rusty January 30, 2009 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 24743)
I am currently learning about verbs that I think are called reflexive verbs. (Is that correct?) (Yes, but see note below.) I have recently been introduced to the words "lavar", "cepillar" and "despertar". I am looking for a wide variety of examples of how each could be used.

Specifically:

1) LAVAR - If I understand this correctly, if someone is washing something, I just use "lavar". For example, "Él lava la camisa." But if someone is washing a part of oneself, you use the reflexive pronoun. For example, "Él se lava el pelo."

Are these examples correct? (yes) Is my thinking correct? (yes) Can you please give me more examples (a wide variety of ways of using "lavar")? Thank you!!

2) CEPILLAR - The only examples I've seen of "cepillar" are for brushing one's own teeth or hair. So, for example, "Él se cepilla el pelo." Or, "Él se cepilla los dientes." :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

But, if I wanted to say that someone is brushing someone else's hair, do I say "La mujer se cepilla el pelo de niña."?? (no, don't use the reflexive pronoun - La mujer cepilla el pelo/cabello de la niña.) Is there a case where you use "cepillar" without the reflexive pronoun? (absolutely) May I also have some varied examples of the use of "cepillar"? (Again, thank you!!)

3) DESPERTAR - I get the basic examples of the use of "despertar". I understand "El hombre despierta a su esposa." And I understand why you use the word "se" in the following sentence: "El hombre se despierta."

But would I also say "Me despierto" for "I wake up"? :thumbsup: Would I say "Te despiertas" for "you wake up"? :thumbsup: What about "Te despierto" for "I wake you up". :thumbsup: Does that work? Or would it be "Despierto a ti." (Te despierto a ti. :thumbsup:)?? May I also have some varied examples of the use of "despertar"?

There are MANY such verbs. Technically, they're called pronominal verbs, and reflexive verbs are a type of pronominal verb.
I'll let others fill your request for more examples.

laepelba January 30, 2009 05:22 PM

And again, thank you, Rusty. I love the little thumbs up. :)

Rusty January 30, 2009 05:58 PM

You're welcome.

I love that martian, by the way.

laepelba January 30, 2009 06:04 PM

I figured it was time for an avatar.......... ;)

literacola January 31, 2009 06:53 PM

You have the right idea. You should note that lavar, cepillar, and despertar are not reflexive forms. The correct way to write the infinite of a reflexive verb is to add se to the end. Lavarse, cepillarse, and despertarse. To wash oneself, to brush oneself, and to wake oneself up(to wake up).

When someone or someone is performing an action on anyone or anything but themselves, there will be no reflexive action and therefore no reflexive pronoun used. So when you say The woman brushed the girls hair, there is no reflexive action being performed.

There are also reflexive verbs that are not so obvious. For example, acordarse (+de, to remember), acostarse (to go to bed), dormirse (to fall asleep), despedirse (+de, to say goodbye to).

In English we do not say I remember what happened myself, or I go to bed and fall asleep myself. In Spanish these are seen as actions that are performed on oneself, and are sometimes hard to figure out if you do not already know that the verb is reflexive.

Also remember that reflexive pronouns are not the same as indirect object pronouns, even though they are very similar.

laepelba January 31, 2009 07:01 PM

Thanks, literacola! This really helps. A couple of quick questions about what you wrote here. First of all, you said that reflexive is only something done to oneself. So the example of "Te despierto" or "Te despierto a ti" for "I wake you up" is not considered reflexive, but still uses the pronouns similarly, right?

And about the word that you mentioned, "despedirse" ... really it's considered reflexive? You say goodbye to something ... and you're doing it to yourself? That's interesting. Could you please give me a couple of sentences that use the term despedirse (de) so that I can consider its use? Thank you again!! ¡¡Gracias otra vez!!

literacola January 31, 2009 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 24824)
Thanks, literacola! This really helps. A couple of quick questions about what you wrote here. First of all, you said that reflexive is only something done to oneself. So the example of "Te despierto" or "Te despierto a ti" for "I wake you up" is not considered reflexive, but still uses the pronouns similarly, right?

And about the word that you mentioned, "despedirse" ... really it's considered reflexive? You say goodbye to something ... and you're doing it to yourself? That's interesting. Could you please give me a couple of sentences that use the term despedirse (de) so that I can consider its use? Thank you again!! ¡¡Gracias otra vez!!

To question number one, yes and no. While te is both an indirect object pronoun and a reflexive pronoun that can be used in both situations, you can not use a reflexive pronoun in place of an indirect object pronoun and vice versa.

IO Pronouns are Me, Te, Le, Nos, Os, Les, and Se (which is just used in place of le or les when there is a DO pronoun that begins with an L following it.).

Reflexive pronouns are Me, Te, Se, Nos, and Os.

Notice that in reflexive usage, Se is used for all of the 3rd person forms and the formal second person.

In those examples, the subject of the sentence is not receiving anything in the statement.

Yo te despierto. I wake you up.

Notice that the subject (I) and the direct object (you) are not the same person. Therefore the action is not reflected back onto the subject, it is instead projected onto another object.

Yo me despierto I wake(myself) up.

Notice now that the pronoun matches the subject of the sentence. I am reflecting the action of waking up back onto myself, and not onto someone or something else.



I am not too sure about the actual use of despedir in regard to how often it is used by speakers. Here is an example

Nos despedimos de ellas. We said goodbye to the girls.

sosia February 02, 2009 12:22 AM

nice avatar :D

laepelba February 02, 2009 03:01 AM

Thanks, Sosia - I figured it was time...... :D


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