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-   -   Nunca, jamás, tampoco, ni (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=7501)

laepelba March 28, 2010 06:07 AM

Nunca, jamás, tampoco, ni
 
Working on negating a declarative sentence...

I understand (I think) "nunca" and "jamás". Are they strictly interchangeable? Or are there certain times when one is used and not the other?

I don't necessarily understand when "tampoco" is used, nor do I understand the syntax of the sentences that have "tampoco". I think that it has the same sense as the English "somthing/somebody doesn't ______ either". Right? Will you please give me a few examples (with translations)?

Also, I don't really understand "ni". Is it like "did not even"? Will you also give me some example sentences (again with translations)?

THANK YOU!!!!!

chileno March 28, 2010 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77874)
Working on negating a declarative sentence...

I understand (I think) "nunca" and "jamás". Are they strictly interchangeable? Or are there certain times when one is used and not the other?

I have never been this sick.

I never get sick, ever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77874)
I don't necessarily understand when "tampoco" is used, nor do I understand the syntax of the sentences that have "tampoco". I think that it has the same sense as the English "somthing/somebody doesn't ______ either". Right? Will you please give me a few examples (with translations)?

Also, I don't really understand "ni". Is it like "did not even"? Will you also give me some example sentences (again with translations)?

THANK YOU!!!!!

Not even = ni siquiera

Neither = ni tampoco


I know, it isn't what you asked/wanted, but if it isn't of help to you, hopefully it will help somebody else. :)

laepelba March 28, 2010 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chileno (Post 77876)
I have never been this sick.

I never get sick, ever.

So they don't mean the same thing? Huh?? :thinking:

Not even = ni siquiera

Neither = ni tampoco

I was hoping for some sample sentences (with translations). Isn't it also possible to use "ni" without "tampoco" or "siquiera"?

I know, it isn't what you asked/wanted, but if it isn't of help to you, hopefully it will help somebody else. :)

.....

chileno March 28, 2010 12:08 PM

Lou Ann,

It doesn't even get you going with more questions?

Yes. Sometimes they mean the same as In English Never/ever.

:-)

I am waiting for the rest of the posters too.

CrOtALiTo March 28, 2010 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77874)
Working on negating a declarative sentence...

I understand (I think) "nunca" and "jamás". Are they strictly interchangeable? Or are there certain times when one is used and not the other?

I don't necessarily understand when "tampoco" is used, nor do I understand the syntax of the sentences that have "tampoco". I think that it has the same sense as the English "somthing/somebody doesn't ______ either". Right? Will you please give me a few examples (with translations)?

Also, I don't really understand "ni". Is it like "did not even"? Will you also give me some example sentences (again with translations)?

THANK YOU!!!!!

I never will use the drugs.
Nunca usare las drogas.
You either use the drugs.
Tu tampoco uses las drogas.
I'll never use the drugs.
Jamaz usare las drogas.


I hope that those examples can be helpful for you.

AngelicaDeAlquezar March 28, 2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77874)
Working on negating a declarative sentence...

I understand (I think) "nunca" and "jamás". Are they strictly interchangeable? Or are there certain times when one is used and not the other?

I don't necessarily understand when "tampoco" is used, nor do I understand the syntax of the sentences that have "tampoco". I think that it has the same sense as the English "somthing/somebody doesn't ______ either". Right? Will you please give me a few examples (with translations)?

Also, I don't really understand "ni". Is it like "did not even"? Will you also give me some example sentences (again with translations)?

THANK YOU!!!!!

"Nunca" and "jamás" can be interchangeable sometimes. But the nuance I find, is that "jamás", tends to sound a bit more dramatic and more "definitive" than "nunca".

"Tampoco" is used when you have made a negative statement and you're adding another one.

"Ni - ni" is a couple similar to "neither - nor".
"Ni" alone, stresses the absence of something. :thinking:


Juan nunca me dice que me quiere. (She's sad) / Juan jamás me dice que me quiere. (She's about to cry or crying.) ;)
Juan never says that he loves me.

Nunca le doy mi (número de) teléfono a extraños. (I'm a bit paranoid) / Jamás le doy mi teléfono a extraños. (I'm paranoid) :rolleyes:
I never give my telephone number to strangers.

Nunca manejes cansado. (Wise advice) / Jamás manejes cansado. (More like an order.)
Never drive if you're tired.

Nosotros nunca comemos mariscos. (Simple statement) / Nosotros jamás comemos mariscos. (Clear aversion stated)
We never eat sea-food.


Juan nunca me dice que me quiere y yo tampoco le digo que lo quiero.
Juan never says he loves me and I never tell him that I love him.

Yo no le doy mi teléfono a nadie y tampoco hablo con extraños.
I don't give my telephone number to anyone and I don't talk to strangers either.

No me gustan los mariscos, pero tampoco la carne.
I don't like sea-food, but neither I like meat.


Fui a la farmacia, pero no pude comprar ni la medicina ni las jeringas.
I went to the drugstore, but could buy neither the medicine, nor the syringes.

¿No tienes ni café ni leche?
You don't have any coffee or milk?

Se nos hizo tarde y no fuimos ni al cine ni al teatro.
We were late and we went neither to the movies, nor to the theatre.


No tengo ni idea de cómo pudo pasar esto.
I have no idea on how this could happen.

Abrimos la llave pero no salía ni gota de agua.
We turned the faucet on but not a single drop of water was coming out of it.

Ni te imaginas lo bien que nos fue.
You can't even imagine how good we did.

laepelba March 28, 2010 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 77929)
Nunca manejes cansado. (Wise advice) / Jamás manejes cansado. (More like an order.)
Never drive if you're tired.

Would this be more exact? "Never drive tired" (kind of like "never drive drunk").

No me gustan los mariscos, pero tampoco la carne.
I don't like sea-food, but neither do I like meat.

Ni te imaginas lo bien que nos fue.
You can't even imagine how well we did.:whistling:

Thanks!! Very helpful..... I believe that I need to come back to this and try to write some examples of my own ... I understand what you wrote with the "tampoco" and the "ni", but am not sure I would be able to put together any original sentence of my own. When I have some time, I'll try it........

Another question regarding word order when using nunca/jamás. I wrote some sentences in a workbook, and the answer key had the words in a different order. Is my order okay, or does it have to be the way the answer key has it?

My sentence: Los periodistas no redactan nunca optimistas. (My thinking was that they "never print", with "never" modifying the action?)
Answer key: Los periodistas no redactan optimistas nunca.

My sentence: Los marineros no tienen nunca miedo al mar. (Again, my thinking that "never" modifies "have"?)
Answer key: Los marineros no tienen miedo al mar nunca.

AngelicaDeAlquezar March 29, 2010 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77958)
[...]Never drive if you're tired.
Would this be more exact? "Never drive tired" (kind of like "never drive drunk").

If that construction is correct in English, then yes. I wasn't sure, so I just wrote the idea of the sentence. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77958)
No me gustan los mariscos, pero tampoco la carne.
I don't like sea-food, but neither do I like meat.

Ni te imaginas lo bien que nos fue.
You can't even imagine how well we did.:whistling:

Thanks for the corrections. I found "we did good" in a word website and just parroted it. :blackeye:

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77958)
Another question regarding word order when using nunca/jamás. I wrote some sentences in a workbook, and the answer key had the words in a different order. Is my order okay, or does it have to be the way the answer key has it?

My sentence: Los periodistas no redactan nunca optimistas. (My thinking was that they "never print", with "never" modifying the action?)
Answer key: Los periodistas no redactan optimistas nunca.

My sentence: Los marineros no tienen nunca miedo al mar. (Again, my thinking that "never" modifies "have"?)
Answer key: Los marineros no tienen miedo al mar nunca.

Your thinking is right in both sentences. :thumbsup:
The place of "nunca" and other adverbs (I'd say) is mostly a matter of style, but sometimes it can change the meaning.

"Los periodistas no redactan nunca optimistas" can be understood, but "optimistas" feels like a substantive, so it's not the best choice for word order. :thinking:

Your sentence with "miedo al mar" is alright, and I'd say it's even better than the answer key. :)


Personally, I wouldn't have chosen any of the book answers:

- Los periodistas nunca redactan optimistamente. / Los periodistas nunca redactan noticias optimistas. / Los periodistas no redactan nunca noticias optimistas. ("nunca" could be placed at the end as well in this sentence.)
"Optimistas" use doesn't feel appropriate here for me. There is need for a noun (e.g. "noticias") or to change the adjective for an adverb on how they print.

And

- Los marineros nunca tienen miedo al mar.
Only for style... sometimes I prefer to avoid double negative. :)

chileno March 29, 2010 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laepelba (Post 77958)
My sentence: Los marineros no tienen nunca miedo al mar. (Again, my thinking that "never" modifies "have"?)
Answer key: Los marineros no tienen miedo al mar nunca.

The order of the words, usually is not important. However, consider this.

Los marineros no tienen miedo al mar, nunca

bobjenkins March 29, 2010 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar (Post 77929)
"Nunca" and "jamás" can be interchangeable sometimes. But the nuance I find, is that "jamás", tends to sound a bit more dramatic and more "definitive" than "nunca".

"Tampoco" is used when you have made a negative statement and you're adding another one.

"Ni - ni" is a couple similar to "neither - nor".
"Ni" alone, stresses the absence of something. :thinking:


Juan nunca me dice que me quiere. (She's sad) / Juan jamás me dice que me quiere. (She's about to cry or crying.) ;)
Juan never says that he loves me.

Nunca le doy mi (número de) teléfono a extraños. (I'm a bit paranoid) / Jamás le doy mi teléfono a extraños. (I'm paranoid) :rolleyes:
I never give my telephone number to strangers.

Nunca manejes cansado. (Wise advice) / Jamás manejes cansado. (More like an order.)
Never drive if you're tired.

Nosotros nunca comemos mariscos. (Simple statement) / Nosotros jamás comemos mariscos. (Clear aversion stated)
We never eat sea-food.


Juan nunca me dice que me quiere y yo tampoco le digo que lo quiero.
Juan never says he loves me and I never tell him that I love him.

Yo no le doy mi teléfono a nadie y tampoco hablo con extraños.
I don't give my telephone number to anyone and I don't talk to strangers either.

No me gustan los mariscos, pero tampoco la carne.
I don't like sea-food, but neither I like meat.


Fui a la farmacia, pero no pude comprar ni la medicina ni las jeringas.
I went to the drugstore, but could buy neither the medicine, nor the syringes.

¿No tienes ni café ni leche?
You don't have any coffee or milk?

Se nos hizo tarde y no fuimos ni al cine ni al teatro.
We were late and we went neither to the movies, nor to the theatre.


No tengo ni idea de cómo pudo pasar esto.
I have no idea on how this could happen.

Abrimos la llave pero no salía ni gota de agua.
We turned the faucet on but not a single drop of water was coming out of it.

Ni te imaginas lo bien que nos fue.
You can't even imagine how good we did.

Aquí están buenísimos ejemplos !
muchas gracias!:rose:
Hay una diferencia clara entre nunca y jamás


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