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-   -   Quien vs. Que - Relative Pronoun (http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthread.php?t=14759)

Premium February 01, 2013 06:00 AM

<> This dialog was copied from another thread to here. <>
In my book, under ''"el pronombre relativo & el adverbio relativo".

Quien/quienes always referres to a person.

For instance:
- La familia con quien vivo es muy amable.
- Esta es la amiga de quien te hablé.
- Ofelia, a quien amlet tanto amó, era muy joven.
- La secretaria, a quien le entregué la carta, me dijo que regresara mañana.
- Estas son las amigas de quienes te hablé/Estas son las amigas de las que te hablé.
- El alumno, quien acaba de llegar, estudia esperanto.

Que referres to a "thing".

- La revista de que te hablé se me ha perdido.
- La calle en que vivo es muy tranquila.
- Me ha llamado el chico al que conoci ayer.
- ¿Leiste el libro que te regalé?

Now, the following phrases confuse me.

- El amigo que llega mañana es árabe.
- Los turistas que visitan España vienen de todo el mundo.

Why is "que" used in these two sentences?

Thank you in advance.

Perikles February 01, 2013 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium (Post 133132)
In my book, under ''"el pronombre relativo & el adverbio relativo".

Quien/quienes always referres to a person..

Que referres to a "thing".


Now, the following phrases confuse me.

- El amigo que llega mañana es árabe.
- Los turistas que visitan España vienen de todo el mundo.

Why is "que" used in these two sentences?

Your book oversimplifies because que is commonly used for people as well. My grammar book however fails to explain when you need quien(es) instead and where there is an overlap. :thinking:

Rusty February 01, 2013 03:19 PM

The sentences you listed from your textbook are using the relative pronouns as objects of a preposition, and I agree that they should be used as stated.

However, when not used as a prepositional object, it is proper to use 'que' for both a thing and a person.
I like to call this usage a 'relative conjunction' instead of a relative pronoun. The conjunction introduces a relative clause. Hence, its name. The whole clause is the relative pronoun.

That is what is being used in the two sentences that you find confusing.

The word 'quien' is not a conjunction. Therefore, it cannot be used to introduce a relative clause.

('Prefers' has only one 'r' and no 'e' after the 'r', by the way. :) )

Premium February 01, 2013 03:34 PM

It's complicated but i think i got i know, thank you very much both of you.

Perikles February 02, 2013 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty (Post 133134)
However, when not used as a prepositional object, it is proper to use 'que' for both a thing and a person.

I hear what you say, but is there an overlap where que and quien are equally valid? If not, then why these (or is the punctuation the key, where there is a distance between the quien and its antecedent?)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Premium (Post 133132)
- El alumno, quien acaba de llegar, estudia esperanto.

- El amigo que llega mañana es árabe.

:thinking::)

Rusty February 02, 2013 09:26 AM

In the sentence that contains the comma, Spanish allows this usage, but only because of the punctuation. Without it, you must use 'que'.

Fuentes:
http://users.ipfw.edu/jehle/courses/relpron1.htm
http://spanish.speak7.com/spanish_pronouns.htm
http://www.unsfrd.org/ApuntesG/PronombresRelativos.html

Perikles February 02, 2013 10:37 AM

Thanks Rusty - that first link is the first time I have seen this explained so clearly. I have yet to find a Spanish grammar book which does that. :)

Rusty February 02, 2013 10:55 AM

Yeah, I liked it, too. You're welcome.

JuanMazariegos1976 April 07, 2013 12:03 AM

Is ok if you use "quien/quienes":

El amigo quien llega mañana es árabe.
Los turistas quienes visitan España vienen de todo el mundo.

In fact these are the right terms when you are referring to persons. 30 years ago using "que" for persons was a grammar issue.

Rusty April 07, 2013 12:35 AM

Parece ser un calco del inglés. ¿Hay alguna fuente fiable que lo afirme?


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