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El doncel / la doncellaAsk about definitions or translations for Spanish or English words. |
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#1
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El doncel / la doncella
Do these words indicate nobility or servants? I can't tell from the definitions. And are they equivalent except for the gender? I find more nobility references for doncel than for doncella....
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
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#2
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Indicate nobility AND servants... since they served the kings... But in order to serve a king you couldn't be a "nobody"...
"Doncella" is equivalent in some senses, but not exactly. It is more used currently, while "doncel" has become almost archaic. (If you check DRAE definitions you can see the differences...)
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Lo propio de la verdad es que se basta a sí misma, aquel que la posee no intenta convencer a nadie. "An enemy is somebody who flatters you. A friend is somebody who criticizes the living daylights out of you." |
#3
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Thanks. And I have seen the differences. But they weren't making sense to my English brain. I think of "nobleman" and "noblewoman" as referring to the same "level", so to speak. I would never think of the servant of nobility being anywhere near the level of the nobility that they serve. Interesting that the one has fallen out of common use and the other hasn't....
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
#4
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It's like damsel in English. I don't know if there is a current male equivalent of damsel English. Dame is to damsel what sir is to ....
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Me ayuda si corrige mis errores. Gracias. |
#5
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Yes, "damsel" = damisela, doncella.
Dame = dama. Sir = señor. Young nobleman = doncel. Doncel = page, servant, young squire. The "problem" is that the word is used with different nuances in different contexts, but the point is the activities of "serving a king" or that work in itself, in terms of carrying his weapons, armor, etc. is not activity being done today... while "doncella" still keeps the "activity" of her work in current days... (Don't think this has a particular "machista" reason... but whatever it is, that's the way it has turned out to be...) @Lou Ann, I though about the expression "nobleza obliga" (somehow related to this)... In this forum they discuss it, http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=687083 I bring this up, because, at least in Spain, to have to honor of serving a king was not bestowed to any-Juan...
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Lo propio de la verdad es que se basta a sí misma, aquel que la posee no intenta convencer a nadie. "An enemy is somebody who flatters you. A friend is somebody who criticizes the living daylights out of you." |
#6
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Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlem...the_Bedchamber and observe how many are from the higher ranks of peerage (Duke, Marquess, Earl). |
#7
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I have just just came across this when reading Dickens Great Expectations in Spanish. This
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#8
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Bad translation, and I guess it would be considered an excellent interpretation by those people that don't like literal translations.
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#9
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You are SO right about that. A big part of me doesn't even want to know the answer to my question here. I know nothing of the levels of social status in societies with formal nobility and I don't want to know. Very American..... I don't like the English sentence - it's awkward (to my modern American English ears...)
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- Lou Ann, de Washington, DC, USA Específicamente quiero recibir ayuda con el español de latinoamerica. ¡Muchísimas gracias! |
#10
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