Directions - Use of Ser and Estar

[Desmond]

Giving direction

Estación de RENFe, Teatro, Aeropuerto, Catedral all use the Verb Estar

Oficina de turismo, Ayuntamiento use the Verb Ser

Is there a rule that helps sort these out please.

[Rusty]

Look in the Grammar forum. The second sticky thread will give you the information you seek.

[Desmond]

This doesn’t work as in ...
Giving direction

Estar is used for: Location/position of people/thingsEven if it's something permanent
Ese es el ayuntamiento. [Ser]
Allí está la catedral. [Esta]

Bot are buildings and are perminant fixtures. The scentance is about location.

Also
Estación de RENFe, Teatro, Aeropuerto, Catedral all use the Verb Estar
Oficina de turismo, Ayuntamiento use the Verb Ser

Esta
Allí está la estación de RENFE.
El teatro está allí.
El aeropuerto está por allí.
Allí está la catedral.

Ser
Esa es la oficina de turismo.
Ese es el ayuntamiento.

[poli]

Yes, that is right.
In these cases ser refers to what the building is and estar refers to its location.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

You are confusing the location of a building for its description.

Escrito originalmente por Desmond

This doesn’t work as in ...
Giving direction

Estar is used for: Location/position of people/thingsEven if it's something permanent
Ese es el ayuntamiento. [Ser] (Description)
Allí está la catedral. [Estar] (Location)

Bot are buildings and are perminant fixtures. The scentance is about location.

Also
Estación de RENFe, Teatro, Aeropuerto, Catedral all use the Verb Estar
Oficina de turismo, Ayuntamiento use the Verb Ser

Estar (Location)
Allí está la estación de RENFE.
El teatro está allí.
El aeropuerto está por allí.
Allí está la catedral.

Ser (Description)
Esa es la oficina de turismo.
Ese es el ayuntamiento.

In English, the location is given by a sentence like "the airport is there" and the description is expressed by a sentence like "that is the airport". Both kind of sentences have different meanings and therefore, different constructions. It's the same in Spanish: "estar" is for locations and "ser" is for descriptions.

The use of the verbs "ser" and "estar" is not defined by the kind of building.

You can perfectly say:
- Ésta es la estación de RENFE.
- Ése es el teatro.
- Éste es el aeropuerto.
- Ésa es la catedral.
All these sentences are describing what the buildings are.

And also you can say:
- Ahí está la oficina de turismo.
- El ayuntamiento está aquí.
And these sentences are saying where the buildings are.

[Desmond]

Direction is my point.

I am learning Spanish using the famous Linquaphone.12 CDs and 5 Books. Book 2 Lesson 5 titled Asking the way So this lesson is purely for giving directions. There 8 in all including

El teatro está allí. AND El aeropuerto está por allí.

So it is not (as I see it ) Describing something.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

When you say what a building is in the form of sentences saying "this is the theatre", "that is the hotel", you are making a description. The sense of direction is given by the gesture of pointing at a place either on a map or out in the street to make clear what you mean by "this" or "that".

Please take a look again at the explanation and the examples; mind the use of "ahí"/"aquí"/"allá" with the verb "estar" and the use of "ése"/"esa"/"éste"/"ésta" with the verb "ser". The sentences with the demonstrative adverbs show where a place is, and the sentences with demonstrative pronouns describe what the place is.

[Desmond]

Well that sort of makes sence
oth
That is the tourist office. = Esa es la oficina de turismo.
That is the town hall. = Ese es el ayuntamiento.
Can be seen as a descriptive way of giving a direction

but...
There is a bank in that street. = Hay un banco en esa calle.
This is clearly a direction not a description. The tourist cant see through a brick wall to the next street.

[aleCcowaN]

Hay (there is, there are) only tells something exists. You can be as precise as you want:

Hay una solución para tu problema.
Hay un banco en la ciudad
Hay un banco en algún lugar.
Hay un banco a la vuelta de la esquina.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Desmond: Direction is the sense of orientation a person gets from being given instructions and references to arrive at a place. What many of these sentences do is just give you references of what you will find when you arrive at your destination or while walking along the path you have been suggested to follow.

Let's focus on the different structures that have been introduced, which mean different things even if all of them are used to let a person know their way to a place. So far, you have talked about three different structures that are expressed with three different verbs in Spanish: "ser", "estar" and "haber" (in its impersonal form). All three have also different and distinguishable forms in English:

In previous examples I said that sentences with "ser" need a demonstrative pronoun, while sentences with "estar" need a demonstrative adverb. Now a distinction must be made with "hay", which in English translates into the structure "there is / there are", and it is used to say what exists in a place.

See how different these two sentences are in English:
- The bank is there.
- There is a bank there.

The first sentence must use the verb "estar" and it expresses location: it says where the bank is: "El banco está ahí".
The second sentence is expressed with "haber" in its impersonal form "hay", and it expresses what exists in that place: "Ahí hay un banco".
If the original sentence in English would have been "That is the bank", then you would have used the verb "ser" to describe what the building you're pointing at is: "Ése es el banco."

Ser -> that/this + to be + place
- Ésta es la oficina de turismo.
- Éste es el aeropuerto.
- Ése es el teatro.
- Ésa es la catedral.

Estar -> here/there + to be + place
- Ahí está la oficina de turismo.
- Ahí está el aeropuerto.
- Aquí está el teatro.
- Aquí está la catedral.

Haber (impersonal conjugation = "hay") -> there is + place + there/here
- Ahí hay una oficina de turismo.
- Ahí hay un aeropuerto.
- Aquí hay un teatro.
- Aquí hay una catedral.

Let me advise you that you focus on the regularities of the structures more than the translation of a piece of the sentences. Otherwise nothing will ever make sense.