Despideme de Juan ??? ... a Juan?

[deandddd]

Members of the Forum,

Could somebody explain the difference between:

"Despideme de Juan" and "Despideme a Juan"? I know that one structure is more polite than the other, but I always forget which is which.

And perhaps somebody could explain what the grammatical rationale is?

Thanks in advance,

Dean/Silopanna

[Rusty]

despedirse de alguien = say goodbye to someone
despedir a alguien = fire someone

Me despido de Juan. = I'm saying goodbye to John.
Despido a Juan. = I'm firing John.

Your sentences appear in second person command form (suffixed as is, with the pronoun me, an accent mark is required to retain proper stress). With the suffix me, the speaker is asking another person to do the firing or saying goodbye for him (on his behalf).

Despídeme a Juan. = Fire John (for me, on my behalf).
Despídeme de Juan. = Say goodbye to John for me (on my behalf).

A more polite form may be constructed with the conjunction 'que', followed by a verb in the present subjunctive.
Que me despide de Juan. = Please say goodbye to John for me.

[deandddd]

Rusty,

Thanks for the explanation. But why is the preposition "a" used in a rougher context? And why is "de" used in a polite and thoughtful context?

I should have noticed the lack of an accent.

[Rusty]

I'll defer to a native speaker to answer your question about why one is harsh and the other is polite.
Some verbs take no preposition, while others do. Those that do are called phrasal verbs. The meaning of the verb changes depending on the preposition used.

Learners of English must be blown away trying to figure out some of our phrasal verbs. The verb 'cut' often implies using a sharp-edged instrument to slice, sever, carve, or hew, but that isn't at all implied when one of the phrasal forms that follow are employed: cut down (lower, reduce, diminish, curtail), cut up (play pranks, misbehave), cut in (interrupt, insert oneself in between (in lines, traffic)), cut off (disown, disinherit, shut off, shut out (traffic)), and cut out (cease, stop, discontinue, omit).

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I agree with Rusty.

Escrito originalmente por deandddd

But why is the preposition "a" used in a rougher context? And why is "de" used in a polite and thoughtful context?

So "despedir a alguien" means to say goodbye to someone who is leaving a place, voluntarily or not. This is a direct, not necessarily harsh, action of the verb.

- Ayer despedimos a mi abuelo, que murió de un infarto.
Yesterday we said goodbye to my grandfather, who died from a heart attack. -> My grandfather left for good this world and we had a ceremony to honor him.

- Con lágrimas los estudiantes despidieron a su maestro, que se retiró de la profesión después de veinte años.
The students were sad and cried when their teacher retired. -> The teacher left his profession and the children were sad to see him go.

- Despedí al contador porque me estaba robando.
I fired my accountant because he was stealing from me. -> I let my accountant go away before he kept on stealing money.


On the other hand "despedirse de alguien" means to say goodbye to someone when we are leaving.
- Mi abuelo se despidió de nosotros cuando supo que estaba enfermo.
My grandfather said goodbye to us before dying, as he knew he was leaving this world.

- El maestro se despidió de sus estudiantes después de veinte años de trabajo.
After 20 years working as a teacher, he decided to say goodbye to his students.

- Tengo que irme y Juan no ha regresado. Por favor despídeme de él y dile que lo quiero mucho.
I have to go and Juan hasn't come back. I cannot wait for him. Please say goodbye from me to him and tell him I love him.
-> In this last sentence, since I'm leaving and cannot say goodbye myself to a person who is not there, I'm asking someone to say goodbye from me to that person.

- Oye, Juan, Ana se fue temprano. Me dijo que la despidiera de ti y que te dijera que te quiere mucho.
Ana has left the place and asked her friend to say goodbye to Juan from her, since she can't say goodbye herself to him.

- Ya nos vamos, papá. Voy al jardin a despedirme de mi mamá. ¡Niños, vengan a despedirse de su abuelo!
Dad, we are leaving now. I'm going to the garden to say goodbye to mom. Children, come and say goodbye to your grandfather!


In sum, "despedirse de alguien" not only implies the notion of movement but it is an expression of politeness before going away, while "despedir a alguien" means to see/make them leave, so there is no movement implied.

[deandddd]

Angelica,

Thank you for the nice explanation, complete with various examples.

Later!

Dean/Silopanna

[elchocoano]

I can add one example that I just noticed today (25 September) in elcolombiano.com which nicely juxtaposes the two variations (transitive and pronominal).

Fernando Botero died 15 September in Monaco.

1. transitive variation (Botero is direct object)

On 23 September, crowds gather in Bogotá to say goodbye to Botero.

Headline: "Colombia empieza a despedir a Botero"

2. pronominal variation (Botero is agent)

On 25 September, the body of Botero arrives in Medellín.

Headline: "El maestro Botero viene a despedirse de Medellín."


The difference in agency is clear. I would say that variation #2 in general might be more polite in that leaving (a gathering, party, etc.) without saying goodbye is considered impolite (i.e. despedirse a la francesa). But there doesn't seem to be any difference in formality. However, the English translation of variation #2, if "to take one's leave of somebody" is formal.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Nice examples!