Ask a Question

(Create a thread)
Go Back   Spanish language learning forums > Spanish & English Languages > Grammar
Register Help/FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search PenpalsTranslator


No accent mark for the 1st conj verbs in the 2nd pers pl. in the Pretérito imperfecto

 

This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old April 04, 2024, 12:10 AM
Nfqufktc's Avatar
Nfqufktc Nfqufktc is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 17
Nfqufktc is on a distinguished road
No accent mark for the 1st conj verbs in the 2nd pers pl. in the Pretérito imperfecto

Would you confirm my understanding as to why there is no accent mark on the verbs of the 1st conjugation group in the 2nd person plural in the Pretérito imperfecto de indicativo?
The accent mark is used in the 1st person plural

hablaba hablábamos
hablabas hablabais
hablaba hablaban

I checked the pronunciation in Google translate and indeed "hablabais" carries the stress on the senond syllable.

The rule says that words ending in -s, n and a vowel must be stressed on the last but one syllable. And the accent mark is used in hablábamos to maintain compliance with the rule
Would you confirm my understanding that -ai- in the bais represents a falling diphtong thus it cannot be divided?

Last edited by Nfqufktc; April 04, 2024 at 12:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old April 04, 2024, 05:25 AM
Rusty's Avatar
Rusty Rusty is offline
Señor Speedy
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,368
Native Language: American English
Rusty has a spectacular aura aboutRusty has a spectacular aura about
Yes, the 'ai' in the 2nd person plural is a falling diphthong in the case stated.

Should you encounter a verb like 'cambiar', which has a weak 'i' vowel before a strong 'a', you have a rising diphthong (the weak 'i' is also known as a glide). When this verb is conjugated in the 2nd person plural imperfect tense, the result is a triphthong, which must be accented on the strong 'a' vowel to retain the glide (ia): cambiáis.

(A Spanish triphthong always consists of a weak vowel (i,u), a strong vowel (a,e,o), and a weak vowel (i/y,u).)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old April 04, 2024, 05:39 AM
Nfqufktc's Avatar
Nfqufktc Nfqufktc is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 17
Nfqufktc is on a distinguished road
Thank you. Your explanation of the triphthong structure is greatly appreciated.
So far I have encountered only four verbs that carry no accent mark in the 2nd person plural: ser, ir, dar, and ver. When I started perusing the chapter on the Pretérito imperfecto, the absence of the accent mark immediately attracted my attention.

Last edited by Nfqufktc; April 04, 2024 at 08:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old April 04, 2024, 08:38 AM
Nfqufktc's Avatar
Nfqufktc Nfqufktc is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 17
Nfqufktc is on a distinguished road
Speaking of “cambiáis”, allow me to check my understanding again:
Written as “cambiais” (without the accent mark), “iai” is a triphthong which is a single syllable.
cambiais

The resulting verb form has two syllables. In order to retain the stress on the penult, the accent is placed on "a" that results in "bias" being divided into two parts

cambiáis

And, I think, this also holds true for verbs like "hablar", "ayudar" etc. We don't want a diphtong, we want two syllables to maintain the proper sillabication thus both as are accented.

habláis
aydáis

Is this reasoning valid?

Last edited by Nfqufktc; April 04, 2024 at 09:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old April 04, 2024, 10:46 AM
Rusty's Avatar
Rusty Rusty is offline
Señor Speedy
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,368
Native Language: American English
Rusty has a spectacular aura aboutRusty has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nfqufktc View Post
Speaking of “cambiáis”, allow me to check my understanding again:
Written as “cambiais” (without the accent mark), “iai” is a triphthong which is a single syllable.
An accent mark MUST APPEAR on the strong vowel in a triphthong.

And, I think, this also holds true for verbs like "hablar", "ayudar" etc. We don't want a diphthong, we want two syllables to maintain the proper syllabification, thus both a's are accented.
Is this reasoning valid?
Simply put, no.
These last verbs, in the present tense second person forms, all contain an accent mark because the last syllable is stressed. It has nothing to do with whether a diphthong appears in the last syllable or not. This is true for all present tense second person forms (-AR, -ER, and -IR) for vosotros/vosotras.
Especially have a look at the -IR form, whose conjugated second person plural form in the present tense is 'ís': vivís. There is no diphthong there, but it goes to show that the last syllable is stressed in the second person plural present tense conjugations.
Again, when using vosotros/vosotras, the present tense verb ending is the stressed syllable. You can look at nosotros/nosotras endings, as well. The stressed syllable there is the 'a', 'e', or 'i' of the ending ('amos', 'emos', 'imos'). All of the other persons do NOT take the stress in the present tense.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old April 04, 2024, 10:47 AM
Nfqufktc's Avatar
Nfqufktc Nfqufktc is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 17
Nfqufktc is on a distinguished road
As a follow-up to the preceding posts, I would request your opinion upon such verbs as "actuar", "continuar" etc.
The word "actuar" has a rising diphthong. It has two syllables and it is transcribed as
The verb form in the 1st person singular is "actúo" with the accent on the penult
The conjugated forms are supposed to have their accents shifted one syllable forward (a.con.se.jar, a.con.se.jo) in the 1,2,3 p.sg and 3p.pl, which is not the case with "actuar" unless it is pronounced as "ac.tu.ar" in which case it violates the diphthong pronouncing rule: a catch-22 situation.
I would appreciate it if you could explain this point
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old April 04, 2024, 10:53 AM
Rusty's Avatar
Rusty Rusty is offline
Señor Speedy
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 11,368
Native Language: American English
Rusty has a spectacular aura aboutRusty has a spectacular aura about
Although the infinitive contains a rising diphthong, conjugated forms other than vosotros/vosotras and nosotros/nosotras get the stress (just like the corresponding forms in verbs that don't contain a rising diphthong). Only the plural first person and plural second person forms are stressed in the present tense.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old April 04, 2024, 11:25 AM
Nfqufktc's Avatar
Nfqufktc Nfqufktc is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Mar 2024
Posts: 17
Nfqufktc is on a distinguished road
Thank you. I can see the bias in my understanding now.
Reply With Quote
Reply

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Imperfecto/Preterito ducviloxi Grammar 4 January 28, 2013 09:01 PM
Pretérito/Imperfecto mebemelissa Practice & Homework 1 November 25, 2012 02:33 PM
el pretérito y el imperfecto gramatica Grammar 4 April 08, 2008 08:40 PM
el imperfecto v. el preterito gramatica Grammar 7 July 22, 2007 02:19 PM
Does the O need an accent mark.. anthony Grammar 1 July 14, 2007 11:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 AM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X