Pronunciación

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by chileno

Hi:

Sh for me is more phonetically accurate to appeal to the English mind...

The minute you look at a word like that, your mind does not have problems in trying to cope with pronunciation, instead of weird Universal/international phonetic symbology.

I don't know the IPA, and I'm not going to try describing the position of the tongue... An Argentinian "Ll" sounds like the way I pronounce zu in the English word "azure".

[ookami]

Or like "shame" - "llego", "shampoo" - "llave"

[chileno]

Originally Posted by pjt33

I don't know the IPA, and I'm not going to try describing the position of the tongue... An Argentinian "Ll" sounds like the way I pronounce zu in the English word "azure".

True. Also like in Beige.

[irmamar]

Originally Posted by pjt33

Pronounciation of "Ll" is a fairly individual matter. I've travelled in Cuba, Ecuador, and Spain (where I live), and in all three countries I've heard at least three pronounciations:
1. Elongated "L"
2. "Y" (according to one of my Spanish Spanish teachers, "Todo el mundo es yeísta")
3. "Dj" (as in the English loan-word from Arabic, "djinn").

I would characterise the Argentinian pronounciation as "zh" rather than "sh".

Sorry, I don't agree with "2". In Catalonia "ll" is pronounced, since that phoneme is very common in Catalonian, even at the end of the word: "toll" (pool), anyell (lamb). It's a bit difficult that sound, at least for me. You can hear a good "ll" in some places in Aragón, too.

[bobjenkins]

Sé el "LL'' como

/y/ España?
/dj/ Muchos de los otros países
/sh/ Argentina

No estoy seguro de eso

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by irmamar

Sorry, I don't agree with "2".

Why apologise? I'm reporting something someone else said. I clearly don't agree with it because I said that I've heard three different pronunciations in Spain.

Although doesn't Catalan have ll (pronounced "y") and l·l ("long l")? Or is the l·l just a prompt for the benefit of people who are yeísta in castellano? I'm not sure offhand whether I've ever seen ll and l·l in the same document.

[Tomisimo]

It would be fun if everyone could record an audio clip of how they LL, and say where they are from or where that pronunciation of LL is used.

I'll kick it off: Non-native speaker, mostly familiar with Mexican Spanish.

[ookami]

Really good Tomisimo, you seems like a native to me. Today I'm going to buy a microphone and record me.

Meanwhile, I would said: "Hola, me llamo Guido, y vos/tú como te llamas"

I found two differences in accents with argentinian pronunciation:
"Hola" we say it more like "Óla" and the la is concise, dry.
and "llamas" we put the accent on "mas".

[pjt33]

Aquí tenéis.

PD No me gusta oír mi voz grabada porque suena tan distinto de como lo oigo cuando hablo.
PPD ookami, en español argentino ¿no se debe escribirlo "te llamás"? Así lo entiendo de lo que he leído acerca del voseo argentino de en el Diccionario panhispánico de dudas.

[ookami]

Sí, me comí el tilde. Perdón.

RAE: Presente:
llamo
llamas / llamás
llama
llamamos
llamáis / llaman
llaman

¡Hablas muy bien!, y eso de la voz es verdad, cambia mucho.
Mañana grabo algo y así se despejan un poco las dudas, no pude comprar microfono hoy.