Crisis in the future!

[Psychosid]

Hi everyone,

I dont know what has happened to me but.....i have completely forgot how to express uncertainty and doubt in the future, i have tried to research it again but i am getting more and more confused, it started with me trying to express something to a spanish friend, i was trying to say something along the lines of:

next week if if i say that i ............

she said that it would probably be:

la semana que viene si yo dijera....

this threw me because it is the imperfect subjunctive no? el pasado?

anyway can somebody please summarise the various ways to express uncertainty in the future i would be very gratefull.

many thanks
Psid.

[aleCcowaN]

Tell me if the following sentence is right:

"Next week, when you see her, if I were you I'd apologize"

If the answer is yes, English uses "past" for a future situation because it's a hypothetical one. The same does Spanish using imperfect subjunctive:

La semana que viene, si yo dijera que no me he decidido aún tú pensarías que soy un irresoluto.

La semana que viene, cuando la veas, si yo fuera tú, me discuparía.

The last sentence contains two instances of subjunctive, different tense for different reasons.

[Psychosid]

Thanks Alec,

i think i get it, so basically if use use a past (subjunctive) it is still gives the intonance of doubt in the future? pj:

si yo viviera en españa en el año que viene trataría de aprender más español
if i lived in spain next year i would try to learn more spanish

el año que viene cuando yo viva en españa intentaría aprender más español
next year when i live in spain i will try to learn more spanish

these sentences essentially say the same? they give the impression that there is a little uncertainty as to wether i will live in spain or not?

if i am correct then i can say that it is only a matter of words: pj: using a past tense in english means i can use the past tense (subjunctive) in the spanish translation??

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by aleCcowaN

"Next week, when you see her, if I were you I'd apologize".

To be honest, although I agree with your post, that's not a very good example. The "If I were you" is an impossible hypothesis and not really related to the future in the previous clause.

How about

What would you do if I were to leave you tomorrow?

That imperfect subjunctive is clearly related to the future. There are some grammarians who would actually call that construction (imperfect subjunctive + infinitive) a future subjunctive, but this is just a question of nomenclature.

Originally Posted by Psychosid

if i lived in spain next year i would try to learn more spanish
next year when i live in spain i will try to learn more spanish

these sentences essentially say the same? ??

They carry the same message, but the level of uncertainty is different. The first one suggests that the probability of your living in Spain is anything from zero to fairly high, while the second one is certain you will live there.

[Psychosid]

Thanks Perikles,

Maybe my two english examples were not the best, but my spanish equivalents:

si yo viviera en españa en el año que viene trataría de aprender más español

el año que viene cuando yo viva en españa intentaría aprender más español

i am trying to give the impression by using the past subjunctive and the present subjunctive that i may not live in spain, am i correct?

[aleCcowaN]

Originally Posted by Psychosid

i think i get it, so basically if use use a past (subjunctive) it is still gives the intonance of doubt in the future?

Zero doubt in there. Just hypothetical constructions with context telling they'd happen in the future.

If ... = Let's play the following is true: ...

¿Qué harías si te dejara mañana? = Let's play I leave you tomorrow. Imagine that is 100% real and tell my what do you think you'd do in such case.

Originally Posted by Perikles

How about

What would you do if I were to leave you tomorrow?

That imperfect subjunctive is clearly related to the future. There are some grammarians who would actually call that construction (imperfect subjunctive + infinitive) a future subjunctive, but this is just a question of nomenclature.

Very good example, and I agree with that "futuristic" subjunctive, but we wouldn't use such construction in the given example:

¿Qué harías si te dejara/abandonara mañana? ¿De qué viviríamos si renunciases a tu trabajo el mes entrante?

In fact, that "¿Qué harías si te fuera a abandonar mañana?" is a modern version of "¿Qué harías si te dejare mañana?" which sounds a little bit like coming from Isabel or The White Queen: "sed clemente si te implorare perdón"

[Psychosid]

I thought that i had grasped it but now i have lost it again, i just dont get it,

"Zero doubt in there. Just hypothetical constructions with context telling they'd happen in the future."

well then surely the hypothetical is doubt?? because there is no saying that this hypothetical situation will happen..therefore it is a doubt?

how do i then say my two frases regarding next year i may live in spain and that i would learn more spanish?

all i want to know is how to imply in a sentence that talks about actions in the future that there is uncertainty, doubt, hypothetical, call it what you will.

[aleCcowaN]

Can I say

If I lived in Spain next year I would try to learn more Spanish

and

Next year, if I lived in Spain I would try to learn more Spanish

with any discernible difference in meaning?

I'm only sure doubt was in the mind of the speaker because it was scripted that way. But imperfect subjunctive stands whether there's doubt or not, hence doubt is not the issue there, but the hypothetical situation.