Discusión para practicar

[laepelba]

Quiero empezar algunas discusiones para practicar leer y escribir en español. Cuando tengo tiempo, iré al BBC Mundo sitio web (en la sección América Latina) y leeré a la primera historia. Entonces, voy a empezar un nuevo hilo aquí para discutir la historia. Ojalá la historia sea interesante para muchas personas.

Ahora, la primera historia en BBC Mundo América Latina es sobre el peste bubónica en el Perú. La enlace es: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/america_l...eru_amab.shtml

No sabía que enfermedades como el peste bubóncia todavía fueron (¿"fueron"?) problemáticos. Pero, debo saber esto. Aquí en los EEUU, y otros paises desarrollados, nos olvida que hay enfermedades horribles en muchos paises en el mundo.

La única cosa que no comprendo es la idea que hay "a una expansión de las áreas de cultivo en zonas pobladas" (en el penúltimo párrafo). ¿Están diciendo que zonas urbanas están cambiando a zonas para crecer alimentos? ¿Y están diciendo que estas zonas nuevas son entre otras zonas urbanas?

¿Creen ustedes que sería una buena cosa para aprobar leyes que requieren una cierta distancia mínima entre tierra cultivado y zonas urbanas? ¿Hay leyes como eso en los EEUU?

Siempre he vivido en areas muy populadas muy cerca ciudades. Nunca he pensado sobre el problema de roedores cerca tierra cultiva...

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Quiero empezar algunas discusiones para practicar leer y escribir en español. Cuando tengo tenga tiempo, iré al BBC Mundo sitio web(en la sección América Latina)a la sección "Mundo", "América Latina", de la BBC y leeré a la primera historia. Entonces, voy a empezar un nuevo hilo aquí para discutir la historia. Ojalá la historia sea interesante para muchas personas.

Ahora, la primera historia en BBC Mundo América Latina es sobre el la peste bubónica en (el) Perú. La El enlace es: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/america_l...eru_amab.shtml

No sabía que las enfermedades como el la peste bubóncia (hey!! you had an adjective to tell the gender!!) todavía fueron (¿"fueron"?) fueran (where are your subjunctive lessons??) problemáticos problemáticas. Pero, debo (what do you mean? shouldn't it be debería?)saber esto. Aquí en los EEUU, y otros paises desarrollados, nos olvida (who forgets us?? What's the impersonal pronoun?) que hay enfermedades horribles en muchos paises en el mundo.

La única cosa que no comprendo es la idea que hay "a una expansión de las áreas de cultivo en zonas pobladas" (en el penúltimo párrafo). ¿Están diciendo que zonas urbanas están cambiando a zonas para crecer cultivar (where's your Spanish dictionary?) alimentos? ¿Y están diciendo que estas zonas nuevas son entre otras zonas urbanas?

No. (You're right to feel the sentence is unclear, and to my mind, it's wrong, but oh well.)
Están diciendo que la enfermedad se está extendiendo desde las zonas rurales hacia los centros urbanos. Muy probablemente porque los campesinos emigran hacia los centros urbanos buscando trabajo.

Originally Posted by laepelba

¿Creen ustedes que sería una buena cosa (not a wrong sentence, but you could also say "sería bueno", "sería algo bueno") para aprobar leyes que requieren requieran una cierta distancia mínima entre la tierra cultivado cultivada y las zonas urbanas (not completely wrong, but "zonas rurales y zonas urbanas" would be MUCH better)? ¿Hay leyes como eso ésas en los EEUU?

Siempre he vivido en areas muy populadas pobladas, muy cerca de las ciudades. Nunca he pensado sobre el problema de los roedores cerca tierra cultiva (what was that???)...

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by laepelba
Quiero empezar algunas discusiones para practicar leer y escribir en español. Cuando tengo tenga (see below) tiempo, iré al BBC Mundo sitio web(en la sección América Latina)a la sección "Mundo", "América Latina", de la BBC y leeré a la primera historia. Entonces, voy a empezar un nuevo hilo aquí para discutir la historia. Ojalá la historia sea interesante para muchas personas.

Ahora, la primera historia en BBC Mundo América Latina es sobre el la (GAH!!!! DOH!!!!!) peste bubónica en (el) Perú. La El (GAH!!!! DOH!!!!!) enlace es: http://www.bbc.co.uk/mundo/america_l...eru_amab.shtml

No sabía que las enfermedades como el la (GAH!!!! DOH!!!!!)peste bubóncia (hey!! you had an adjective to tell the gender!! I know... GAH!!) todavía fueron (¿"fueron"?) fueran (where are your subjunctive lessons?? (see below)) problemáticos problemáticas. Pero, debo (what do you mean? shouldn't it be debería? I didn't think so ... I meant to say "I should know this". Why would that be debería instead of debo?)saber esto. Aquí en los EEUU, y otros paises desarrollados, nos olvida (who forgets us?? What's the impersonal pronoun? (see below)) que hay enfermedades horribles en muchos paises en el mundo.

La única cosa que no comprendo es la idea que hay "a una expansión de las áreas de cultivo en zonas pobladas" (en el penúltimo párrafo). ¿Están diciendo que zonas urbanas están cambiando a zonas para crecer cultivar (where's your Spanish dictionary? My Spanish dictionary said that "crecer" is used for growing plants. No?) alimentos? ¿Y están diciendo que estas zonas nuevas son entre otras zonas urbanas?

- The website is "BBC Mundo". The section of the website is "América Latina". It's separate from the BBC website....
- My subjunctive lessons only covered the basic cases. Those things you changed to subjunctive don't look at all familiar to me. The first doesn't have "que" in it (where you changed it to "tenga"). I only learned to use subjunctive when there's a "que". In the second, I checked my charts, and "No saber que + " isn't on the list of cases to use the subjunctive.... I guess I need to stop talking about things I don't know anything about and continue to avoid the subjunctive. (sigh.....)
- When I wanted to say "I forgot (something)" I was told that it's "me olvidó" because Spanish speakers would rather say "it was forgotten to me". I thought the same would apply to "we" and the present tense ... "nos olvida" =? "it was forgotten to us". No?

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

No. (You're right to feel the sentence is unclear, and to my mind, it's wrong, but oh well.)
Están diciendo que la enfermedad se está extendiendo desde las zonas rurales hacia los centros urbanos. Muy probablemente porque los campesinos emigran hacia los centros urbanos buscando trabajo.

Originally Posted by laepelba
¿Creen ustedes que sería una buena cosa (not a wrong sentence, but you could also say "sería bueno", "sería algo bueno" I like that MUCH better ... just wasn't sure you could write it like that...) para aprobar leyes que requieren requieran (again, apparently I don't know this use of the subjunctive either...) una cierta distancia mínima entre la tierra cultivado cultivada y las zonas urbanas (not completely wrong, but "zonas rurales y zonas urbanas" would be MUCH better. I was imagining a couple of buildings with a plot of land with corn planted in between the two buildings ... would that count as "zona rural"?)? ¿Hay leyes como eso ésas (GAH!!!! DOH!!!!!) en los EEUU?

Siempre he vivido en areas muy populadas pobladas, muy cerca de las (I don't quite understand why the "las" is there... I would have thought that including "las" would refer to specific cities...) ciudades. Nunca he pensado sobre el problema de los roedores cerca tierra cultiva (what was that??? I meant to say that I have never thought about the problem of having rats near places where the land is used to farm food...)...

(sigh....)

And the thing that bothers me about those subjunctive corrections is that I specifically asked the professors if there exist any other situations in which the subjunctive is used, and they said "no". They said that they only taught us the present tense, which they say is used even for future situations (instead of a future subjunctive tense), and that there are past tenses which we would learn in subsequent courses, but that they covered all of the situations in which subjunctive would be used. (sigh....)

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Pero, debo (what do you mean? shouldn't it be debería?) I didn't think so ... I meant to say "I should know this". Why would that be debería instead of debo?) saber esto.

Re-read what you meant. What's the difference between "I must know" and "I should know"? What verbal tense is "debo" and what "debería"?

Originally Posted by laepelba

¿Están diciendo que zonas urbanas están cambiando a zonas para crecer cultivar (where's your Spanish dictionary? My Spanish dictionary said that "crecer" is used for growing plants. No?) alimentos?

No. That's what plants do as they grow up. "Crecer" is not a transitive verb.

Originally Posted by laepelba

- The website is "BBC Mundo". The section of the website is "América Latina". It's separate from the BBC website...

The BBC is a quite known news agency, so everything that depends on it can be referred to it. In any case, if you don't like it (and it was me who had a strange aesthetical taste) , you can say "iré a la sección (de/sobre) 'América Latina' del/en el sitio "BBC Mundo".
What you wrote was English with Spanish words.

Originally Posted by laepelba

- My subjunctive lessons only covered the basic cases. Those things you changed to subjunctive don't look at all familiar to me. The first doesn't have "que" in it (where you changed it to "tenga"). I only learned to use subjunctive when there's a "que". In the second, I checked my charts, and "No saber que + " isn't on the list of cases to use the subjunctive.... I guess I need to stop talking about things I don't know anything about and continue to avoid the subjunctive.

Ok then. Check an old message I sent to you explaining some basic cases including "cuando" and "si".
As for "no saber que", well, you can't learn a language with "lists".

Originally Posted by laepelba

- When I wanted to say "I forgot (something)" I was told that it's "me olvidó" because Spanish speakers would rather say "it was forgotten to me". I thought the same would apply to "we" and the present tense ... "nos olvida" =? "it was forgotten to us". No?

No. "SE me olvidó" => "se nos olvida".
General verbal form is "olvidársele algo a alguien".

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Re-read what you meant. What's the difference between "I must know" and "I should know"? What verbal tense is "debo" and what "debería"?

Then I don't understand the word "deber" because I thought it meant "should"... Don't you say "Debo hacer mi tarea"? As in "I should do my homework"? How is this different?

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

The BBC is a quite known news agency, so everything that depends on it can be referred to it. In any case, if you don't like it (and it was me who had a strange aesthetical taste) , you can say "iré a la sección (de/sobre) 'América Latina' del/en el sitio "BBC Mundo" <--That's what I was going for....
What you wrote was English with Spanish words.

Ack! English with Spanish words ... I hate when I do that!!

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Ok then. Check an old message I sent to you explaining some basic cases including "cuando" and "si".
As for "no saber que", well, you can't learn a language with "lists".

Their lists were very exhaustive ... and since I do NOT understand the SENSE of the subjunctive, I have to rely on lists. Otherwise it makes no sense to me. I'll have to dig for that message, because I don't even remember it. Remember that I was ignoring all things subjunctive before I went to BsAs....

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

No. "SE me olvidó" => "se nos olvida".
General verbal form is "olvidársele algo a alguien".

Was there something like "me olvidé" that would have worked?

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Then I don't understand the word "deber" because I thought it meant "should"... Don't you say "Debo hacer mi tarea"? As in "I should must do my homework"? How is this different?

"Deber" is an infinitive; "should" is a conjugated verb.
If you say "I should do my homework" you're supposed to do it, but maybe nothing will happen if you don't. If you say "I must do my homework", there is nothing else you can do about it, and you better start now.

Maybe the threads here, here and here will help.

Originally Posted by laepelba

I'll have to dig for that message, because I don't even remember it. Remember that I was ignoring all things subjunctive before I went to BsAs....

Great! I worked for nothing! I did that on your request.
En fin.

Originally Posted by laepelba

Was there something like "me olvidé" that would have worked?

Yes. "Olvidarse de algo", which has also been dealt with before in your translation threads.
But your sentence didn't suggest any of this. Correct ways to say it were:
· En los países desarrollados se nos olvida que hay enfermedades horribles.
· En los países desarrollados olvidamos que hay enfermedades.
· En los países desarrollados nos olvidamos de que hay enfermedades.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

"Deber" is an infinitive; "should" is a conjugated verb.
If you say "I should do my homework" you're supposed to do it, but maybe nothing will happen if you don't. If you say "I must do my homework", there is nothing else you can do about it, and you better start now.

Maybe the threads here, here and here will help.

I'll check those out. I guess I don't think about "conjugated verbs" in English because there aren't many changes "I should, you should, he should, we should, they should, etc." Like I said - I don't really understand the meaning of "deber"......

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Great! I worked for nothing! I did that on your request.
En fin.

I'm REALLY sorry! I honestly don't remember. Maybe I post too much, because if you spent significant time answering a question I asked, I ought to remember. All I remember is attempting to avoid the subjunctive... Do you know a search term I could use to find it? Again, REALLY sorry!!!

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Yes. "Olvidarse de algo", which has also been dealt with before in your translation threads.
But your sentence didn't suggest any of this. Correct ways to say it were:
· En los países desarrollados se nos olvida que hay enfermedades horribles.
· En los países desarrollados olvidamos que hay enfermedades.
· En los países desarrollados nos olvidamos de que hay enfermedades.

Okay - those all make sense to me. Thanks!!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Sorry that I can't help much about "should". My skills are too limited for technical issues.

As for the subjunctive, check your old mail messages. It must be there somewhere.
Or, take a look at the subjunctive threads in the forum... there are plenty of examples there.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

As for the subjunctive, check your old mail messages. It must be there somewhere.
Or, take a look at the subjunctive threads in the forum... there are plenty of examples there.

Yeah, I have almost 3000 email messages about "learning Spanish" ... and I'm sure that if I do a search on the term "subjunctive" I will come up with the same thing I came up with here on Tomisimo. I have no idea how to find the particular message that you're talking about. I don't want a generic rundown of Tomisimo's threads on the subjunctive, I want to find the one that you put time into. You don't remember any other keywords that you used? Or what it was that made me want to ask you about it? I'm really sorry!!!

I have a whole workbook on the subjunctive, but I want to finish the workbook that I'm in now, with the more basic vocabulary, before I move on to the more advanced topics......