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A linguistic research: native Spanish (Castilian) speakers' opinions needed

 

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  #1  
Old October 13, 2012, 08:39 PM
chokingyou chokingyou is offline
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Post A linguistic research: native Spanish (Castilian) speakers' opinions needed

dear all!

I come here probably with an unusual request -- instead of correcting something, I ask you to help me in another way.
I'm doing a linguistic research on grammatical features of some languages (including Spanish) and would very much like to have an opinion of native speakers of Castilian Spanish on correctness or incorrectness of some 20 phrases I composed myself.

for each phrase please rate its "well-formedness" as:
1 (absolutely unnatural, unacceptable: "I could never say that myself"),
2 (very unnatural, hardly possible: "I could hardly say that myself"),
3 (slightly unnatural, but possible: "I could probably say that myself, but I'm not really sure") or
4 (well-formed and natural: "I could say that myself").

(for some phrases there are also questions which I also would very much like you to answer)


please note that even now I'm already almost sure about some phrases that they are incorrect in Spanish (and it is important for me that they are) -- it is just that I need to prove their incorrectness with the opinions of native speakers.

as far as I'm not a native speaker of Spanish, of course there might be some mistakes (or typos) on my part, and I would be very obliged if you pointed them to me and/or suggested better variants of the phrases concerned.

BUT: at the same time I want to make it clear that what interests me here is the overall naturalness of the phrases --- and particulary the naturalness of the VERBAL forms used in them -- not the orthography or other traditional aspects of "correctness".
so if some phrase contains, for example, a typo or a word order mistake which can be simply corrected without changing a lot (and without changing the verbal form) while the phrase as a whole is otherwise natural and fine, mark it as "4" and please feel free to correct those things that you think should be corrected there to make it sound absolutely fine.

thank you very much in advance, I hope it will work :)


--Maksim Fedotov (St.-Petersburg, Russia)


so here go the phrases:
===========
UPD: some silly errors corrected, thanks to Guijarro from Lingforum

1) (?) Pedro cenó, leyó un libro un rato y se acostó.



2) (?) Hace un momento acabo de asomarme por la ventana.



3) (?) ¡Los niños pasearon toda la mañana y todavía pasean!



4) (?) Llegamos a casa del Sr. Smith a mediodía, pero nos dijeron que esperáramos, así que estuvimos sentados una hora en la sala de recepción — ¡e incluso a las cinco estabamos todavía sentados allí!



5) (?) Llegamos ahí hace tres horas y nos dijeron que esperáramos durante una hora, así que esperamos una hora — ¡pero incluso ahora todavía esperamos!



6) (?) Acaba de llover.

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento llovía
or
b) Hace un momento llovió
?)



7) (?) Mientras la madre estaba en casa, Pedro hacía sus deberes (pero apenas salió ella, (cuando) se puso a ver la tele).



8) (?) ¿Dejó Juan algo? ¡Acaba de salir, pero ahí vuelve de nuevo!



9) (?) Pedro acaba de estar enfermo una semana.



10) (?) Esta mañana apenas acababa de llegar, cuando Pedro me llamó



11) (?) Juan acaba de salir. / Esta mañana, Juan acaba de salir.



12) (?) Juan acaba todavía de salir. / Juan todavía acaba de salir.

(in the sense that (having just left) he's STILL away?)



13) (?) Pedro acaba de dormir.



14) (?) Acabo de trabajar en mi tesis.



15) (?) Acabo de trabajar toda el día en mi tesis.



16) (?) Juan acaba de estar trabajando en su tesis.

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento Juan estaba trabajando en su tesis / trabajaba en su tesis
or
b) Hace un momento Juan estuve trabajando en su tesis / trabajó en su tesis
? or both?)



17) (?) -- ¿Porqué está abierta la ventana de nuevo? ¡Acabo de cerrarla!

(in the sense "Why is the window open again, (though) I just closed it!" (for example, uttered by a person who is ill and is afraid of draughts))



18) (?) (an imagined conversation:)
-- Juan, ¿duerme ahora?
-- No se, pero acaba de dormir (hace un momento).

(in the sense of “I don’t know, but he was just sleeping [when I looked into his room a few minutes ago]”)



19) (?) Hace un momento pasé por el cuarto de Juan y acaba de dormir.

(if such phrase is possible, how could it be translated into English?)



20) (?) El despertador sonó a las 6:30 en punto, pero estuve acostado en la cama por/durante 15 minutos más.

===========

Last edited by chokingyou; October 14, 2012 at 08:02 AM.
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  #2  
Old October 17, 2012, 08:04 PM
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JPablo JPablo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chokingyou View Post
1 (absolutely unnatural, unacceptable: "I could never say that myself"),
2 (very unnatural, hardly possible: "I could hardly say that myself"),
3 (slightly unnatural, but possible: "I could probably say that myself, but I'm not really sure") or
4 (well-formed and natural: "I could say that myself").

===========
UPD: some silly errors corrected, thanks to Guijarro from Lingforum

1) (?) Pedro cenó, leyó un libro un rato y se acostó. 4

2) (?) Hace un momento acabo de asomarme por la ventana. 4 (3)

3) (?) ¡Los niños pasearon toda la mañana y todavía pasean! 4 (3)

4) (?) Llegamos a casa del Sr. Smith a mediodía, pero nos dijeron que esperáramos, así que estuvimos sentados una hora en la sala de recepción — ¡e incluso a las cinco estabamos todavía sentados allí! 4

5) (?) Llegamos ahí hace tres horas y nos dijeron que esperáramos durante una hora, así que esperamos una hora — ¡pero incluso ahora todavía esperamos! 4

6) (?) Acaba de llover. 4 (3)

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento llovía 4
or
b) Hace un momento llovió
?) 3

7) (?) Mientras la madre estaba en casa, Pedro hacía sus deberes (pero apenas salió ella, (cuando) se puso a ver la tele). 4 (3)

8) (?) ¿Dejó Juan algo? ¡Acaba de salir, pero ahí vuelve de nuevo! 4

9) (?) Pedro acaba de estar enfermo una semana. 3

10) (?) Esta mañana apenas acababa de llegar, cuando Pedro me llamó 3

11) (?) Juan acaba de salir. 4 / Esta mañana, Juan acaba de salir. 3

12) (?) Juan acaba todavía de salir. / Juan todavía acaba de salir. 2

(in the sense that (having just left) he's STILL away?)

13) (?) Pedro acaba de dormir. 3

14) (?) Acabo de trabajar en mi tesis. 4 (3)

15) (?) Acabo de trabajar todo el día en mi tesis. 4 (3)

16) (?) Juan acaba de estar trabajando en su tesis. 4 (3)

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento Juan estaba trabajando en su tesis 4 / trabajaba en su tesis 4
or
b) Hace un momento Juan estuvo trabajando en su tesis / trabajó en su tesis 4 (3)
? or both?) (Probably both, with nuances.)

17) (?) -- ¿Porqué está abierta la ventana de nuevo? ¡Si acabo de cerrarla! 4

(in the sense "Why is the window open again, (though) I just closed it!" (for example, uttered by a person who is ill and is afraid of draughts))

18) (?) (an imagined conversation
-- Juan, ¿duerme ahora? 4
-- No sé, pero acaba de dormir (hace un momento). 3

(in the sense of “I don’t know, but he was just sleeping [when I looked into his room a few minutes ago]”)

19) (?) Hace un momento pasé por el cuarto de Juan y acaba de dormir. 3

(if such phrase is possible, how could it be translated into English?)

A moment ago I went through Juan's room and he just had woken up.

20) (?) El despertador sonó a las 6:30 en punto, pero estuve acostado en la cama por/[durante] 15 minutos más. 4

===========
Hi, I give you my numbers above, and a couple of suggestions. I've not "reviewed" what I wrote, but just answered as fast as my neurons allow...
I hope that helps, (and let's see if others give their input!) Good luck!
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  #3  
Old October 18, 2012, 05:04 PM
chokingyou chokingyou is offline
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thanks a lot, JPablo, that's what I needed!
p.s. and for the corrections also

--Maksim
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  #4  
Old October 18, 2012, 06:18 PM
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You're welcome Maksim!
Ah, by the way, welcome to the forums!
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Old October 19, 2012, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chokingyou View Post
dear all!

I come here probably with an unusual request -- instead of correcting something, I ask you to help me in another way.
I'm doing a linguistic research on grammatical features of some languages (including Spanish) and would very much like to have an opinion of native speakers of Castilian Spanish on correctness or incorrectness of some 20 phrases I composed myself.

for each phrase please rate its "well-formedness" as:
1 (absolutely unnatural, unacceptable: "I could never say that myself"),
2 (very unnatural, hardly possible: "I could hardly say that myself"),
3 (slightly unnatural, but possible: "I could probably say that myself, but I'm not really sure") or
4 (well-formed and natural: "I could say that myself").

(for some phrases there are also questions which I also would very much like you to answer)


please note that even now I'm already almost sure about some phrases that they are incorrect in Spanish (and it is important for me that they are) -- it is just that I need to prove their incorrectness with the opinions of native speakers.

as far as I'm not a native speaker of Spanish, of course there might be some mistakes (or typos) on my part, and I would be very obliged if you pointed them to me and/or suggested better variants of the phrases concerned.

BUT: at the same time I want to make it clear that what interests me here is the overall naturalness of the phrases --- and particulary the naturalness of the VERBAL forms used in them -- not the orthography or other traditional aspects of "correctness".
so if some phrase contains, for example, a typo or a word order mistake which can be simply corrected without changing a lot (and without changing the verbal form) while the phrase as a whole is otherwise natural and fine, mark it as "4" and please feel free to correct those things that you think should be corrected there to make it sound absolutely fine.

thank you very much in advance, I hope it will work


--Maksim Fedotov (St.-Petersburg, Russia)


so here go the phrases:
===========
UPD: some silly errors corrected, thanks to Guijarro from Lingforum

1) (?) Pedro cenó, leyó un libro un rato y se acostó. 4



2) (?) Hace un momento acabo de asomarme por la ventana. 3



3) (?) ¡Los niños pasearon toda la mañana y todavía pasean! 4



4) (?) Llegamos a casa del Sr. Smith a mediodía, pero nos dijeron que esperáramos, así que estuvimos sentados una hora en la sala de recepción — ¡e incluso a las cinco estabamos todavía sentados allí! 3/4



5) (?) Llegamos ahí hace tres horas y nos dijeron que esperáramos durante una hora, así que esperamos una hora — ¡pero incluso ahora todavía esperamos! 3/4



6) (?) Acaba de llover. 4/B

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento llovía
or
b) Hace un momento llovió
?)



7) (?) Mientras la madre estaba en casa, Pedro hacía sus deberes (pero apenas salió ella, (cuando) se puso a ver la tele). 4



8) (?) ¿Dejó Juan algo? ¡Acaba de salir, pero ahí vuelve de nuevo! 4



9) (?) Pedro acaba de estar enfermo una semana. 3



10) (?) Esta mañana apenas acababa de llegar, cuando Pedro me llamó 4



11) (?) Juan acaba de salir. / Esta mañana, Juan acaba de salir. 4...2



12) (?) Juan acaba todavía de salir. / Juan todavía acaba de salir.

(in the sense that (having just left) he's STILL away?) 2....2



13) (?) Pedro acaba de dormir. 3



14) (?) Acabo de trabajar en mi tesis. 4



15) (?) Acabo de trabajar toda el día en mi tesis. 4/3



16) (?) Juan acaba de estar trabajando en su tesis. 2

(if it is correct, does it mean the same as:
a) Hace un momento Juan estaba trabajando en su tesis / trabajaba en su tesis mas o menos
or
b) Hace un momento Juan estuve trabajando en su tesis / trabajó en su tesis
? or both?) No



17) (?) -- ¿Porqué está abierta la ventana de nuevo? ¡Acabo de cerrarla! 4

(in the sense "Why is the window open again, (though) I just closed it!" (for example, uttered by a person who is ill and is afraid of draughts))



18) (?) (an imagined conversation
-- Juan, ¿duerme ahora? 4
-- No se, pero acaba de dormir (hace un momento). 3

(in the sense of “I don’t know, but he was just sleeping [when I looked into his room a few minutes ago]”)



19) (?) Hace un momento pasé por el cuarto de Juan y acaba de dormir. estaba dormido.

(if such phrase is possible, how could it be translated into English?)
A moment ago I went past Juan's room (bedroom) and he was asleep.



20) (?) El despertador sonó a las 6:30 en punto, pero estuve acostado en la cama por/durante 15 minutos más. 4

===========
Sounds more natural if instead of could use would....(for your choices)

Some sentences although correct still didn't sound very natural to me.

Welcome to the forums!

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