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  #31  
Old September 13, 2009, 09:42 AM
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chileno chileno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
Gracias, pjt.

@Hernán: creo que era al revés... a la hora de traducir la cualidad del viento, en inglés no resulta comprensible como "gloomy".
Correcto.

Ahora díme si entiendes en español: "Corría un viento tenebroso en ese lugar.."

¿Está mal escrito? ¿No se entiende en español, lo que se quiere decir?

Y si se entiende; ¿puedes explicarmelo?

Vuelvo a decir: Quizás estoy equivocado.
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  #32  
Old September 13, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Sé que la pregunta no va para mi pero me tenté. Para mi esta perfecto el uso, muy barroco o para literatura infantil pero según lo que yo entiendo, se le puede atribuir la cualidad que se quiera a los sustantivos(hasta personificarlos), como cuando decimos calor asfixiante. Un viento tenebroso es un viento con la cualidad de "oscuro, sombrío, que viene de las tinieblas", es decir, de darte miedo. En este caso la combinación no queda muy elocuente, pero...

"El cuarto no era como lo imaginó, tenía cierto aire lúgubre, como si alguien hubiera..."

"Al doblar la esquina, un viento tenebroso le recuerda donde está."
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  #33  
Old September 13, 2009, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
There are many more countries than just Argentina that use vos. In Spain, they use vosotros as the plural form of . They also use ustedes (the plural of usted).
Spaniards can understand Mexicans, but they have to work at it just as hard as we do to understand a Brit.
A TIP FOR YOU RUSTY. YOU JUST NEED TO WRITE BIGGER AND MORE SLOWLY TO MAKE YOURSELF UNDERSTOOD. BASIL FAWLTY HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS WHEN IT COMES TO COMMUNICATION! WITH SPANIARDS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jyp677fxw

Last edited by brute; September 13, 2009 at 01:41 PM.
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  #34  
Old September 13, 2009, 02:32 PM
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@Hernán: claro que "viento tenebroso" es muy claro y gráfico en español, pero la objeción de pjt no es en español, sino que "gloomy wind" no parece ser una traducción válida al inglés (por poética y lógica que nos suene a nosotros).
De cualquier manera, a un tema zombie (o espectral, como lo llamó ookami) le queda muy bien un "chill wind".
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  #35  
Old September 13, 2009, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brute View Post
A TIP FOR YOU RUSTY. YOU JUST NEED TO WRITE BIGGER AND MORE SLOWLY TO MAKE YOURSELF UNDERSTOOD. BASIL FAWLTY HAS SOME GOOD IDEAS WHEN IT COMES TO COMMUNICATION! WITH SPANIARDS!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jyp677fxw
Cuando tenía 15 años actuamos una parte de ese episodio en un clase de inglés, y yo era el tío que habla español que Manuel puede entender. Pero bueno, no sabía que en el original tiene un acento tan horrible.
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  #36  
Old September 14, 2009, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Villa View Post
. A proposito. It's the Spanish from southern Spain that is more similar to Latin Spanish than the more main stream Spanish from Spain of Madrid.
Yes, it is. Both Andalusians and the ones from the Canary Islands were the first on arrive to America.

Cita:

En 1924, el célebre filólogo español Ramón Menéndez Pidal afirmaba que:
«El grueso de las primeras migraciones salió del Sur del reino de Castilla, es decir de Andalucía, de Extremadura y de Canarias, por lo cual la lengua popular hispanoamericana es una prolongación de los dialectos españoles meridionales». (cit. por Wagner 1927: 26).


http://congresosdelalengua.es/valladolid/ponencias/unidad_diversidad_del_espanol/2_el_espanol_de_america/quesada_m.htm


By the way, I have no problem to understand Latin American. Maybe there are some words that I have never heard before, but there's no problem with the accent. There are a lot of Latin America people here, now, and when I speak with them, I understand them and they understand me without any effort.








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  #37  
Old September 14, 2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Hernán: claro que "viento tenebroso" es muy claro y gráfico en español, pero la objeción de pjt no es en español, sino que "gloomy wind" no parece ser una traducción válida al inglés (por poética y lógica que nos suene a nosotros).
De cualquier manera, a un tema zombie (o espectral, como lo llamó ookami) le queda muy bien un "chill wind".
Entendí perfectamente, por eso aludí a lo de la traducción.
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  #38  
Old March 10, 2010, 08:50 AM
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All responses are pretty good, but as a Spaniard, I think I can add an issue that still hasn't been mentioned: the use of verbal tenses. In Spain we can discover american spanish speakers not only by their distinctive accent and their pronunciation of letters c and s, but by their use of verbal tenses. I have never heard an spanish american speaker using the preterito perfecto tense, instead of it they always use the pasado simple tense no matter if the action happened at the close past time or if it happened at the far past time. I have heard that something like this happens with the use of present perfect and past simple in Great Britain and the States.

[QUOTE=irmamar;51561]Yes, it is. Both Andalusians and the ones from the Canary Islands were the first on arrive to America.

Cita:

En 1924, el célebre filólogo español Ramón Menéndez Pidal afirmaba que:
«El grueso de las primeras migraciones salió del Sur del reino de Castilla, es decir de Andalucía, de Extremadura y de Canarias, por lo cual la lengua popular hispanoamericana es una prolongación de los dialectos españoles meridionales». (cit. por Wagner 1927: 26).


http://congresosdelalengua.es/valladolid/ponencias/unidad_diversidad_del_espanol/2_el_espanol_de_america/quesada_m.htm


By the way, I have no problem to understand Latin American. Maybe there are some words that I have never heard before, but there's no problem with the accent. There are a lot of Latin America people here, now, and when I speak with them, I understand them and they understand me without any effort.






De cualquier manera la explicación de Menéndez Pidal ha sido muy cuestionada, porque no explica la razón por la cual el dialecto andaluz occidental, máximo exponente de ceceísmo no aparece en América.

Last edited by AngelicaDeAlquezar; March 10, 2010 at 09:32 AM. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts
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  #39  
Old March 10, 2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by explorator View Post
All responses are pretty good, but as a Spaniard, I think I can add an issue that still hasn't been mentioned: the use of verbal tenses. In Spain we can discover american spanish speakers not only by their distinctive accent and their pronunciation of letters c and s, but by their use of verbal tenses. I have never heard an spanish american speaker using the preterito perfecto tense, instead of it they always use the pasado simple tense no matter if the action happened at the close past time or if it happened at the far past time. I have heard that something like this happens with the use of present perfect and past simple in Great Britain and the States.
Nos puedes dar un ejemplo de los tiempos verbales de los cuales hablas? No entiendo completamente

Pienso que dijiste que los españoles de América nunca usan el pretérito perfecto (he vivido) sino el pasado simple (viví) , mientras el usado del pretérito perfecto es común en español peninsular.
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  #40  
Old March 10, 2010, 01:21 PM
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@Bob: It's not exactly that Latin Americans never use the pretérito perfecto, but we use it less often than Spaniards do.

I think in Spain they would say: ¡La has matado!
We would say: ¡La mataste!

In Spain: (Este verano) He ido de vacaciones a la playa.
We'd say: Fui de vacaciones a la playa.
But in both regions (I think) one would say: He ido a la playa los últimos cuatro años. (Este verano y los anteriores)
If a Latin American says "fui a la playa los últimos cuatro años", it means I won't be doing that anymore.
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