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  #1  
Old August 02, 2011, 10:53 PM
marmoset marmoset is offline
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Usted

Por curiosidad.

Quiero saber si la gente en estes días todavía se usa la palabra y la forma de Usted en situaciones formales. ¿Se ha volvido obsoleto? ¿Depende del país? ¿Depende de la edad del hablante?

Por ejemplo, mi amiga es veterinaria. A veces quiere usar un poquito de español con sus clientes (los dueños, no los animales ). ¿Siempre puede decir, «Cómo estás?» o hay casos en que debe decir, «Cómo está Usted»?

Muchas grácias.

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  #2  
Old August 03, 2011, 07:04 AM
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ookami ookami is offline
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As you said, it depends on many things, as age, country, cultural knowledge of the speaker, etc.
Here (Argentina) young people use it only on specific situations, as a job interview, or with your superiors at work (if they aren't young). Soooooometimes with people they consider important and distant from their reach (ej. an important politician... but not with an important rock star) Rarely with old people.

For example, I use it SOMETIMES with 'superiors', but I mix it with Vos (informal way).
But I'm talking about USTED conjugation, not about the word on itself.

Instead of saying
-¿Cómo está usted?
A more natural way would be:
-¿Cómo está? / ¿Cómo se encuentra?

I think that choosing about talking with tú/vos or usted depends on the speaker. You can talk with tú in situations that using usted would make it more delicated, and be OK, because of the tone, your gestures, etcétera. But to avoid complications, using usted will make things easier.

(lo sé, imposible extraer algo concreto de la madaja de palabras laberinticas que conforman mi respuesta)
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Last edited by ookami; August 03, 2011 at 07:15 AM.
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  #3  
Old August 03, 2011, 07:31 AM
marmoset marmoset is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
As you said, it depends on many things, as age, country, cultural knowledge of the speaker, etc.
Here (Argentina) young people use it only on specific situations, as a job interview, or with your superiors at work (if they aren't young). Soooooometimes with people they consider important and distant from their reach (ej. an important politician... but not with an important rock star) Rarely with old people.

For example, I use it SOMETIMES with 'superiors', but I mix it with Vos (informal way).
But I'm talking about USTED conjugation, not about the word on itself.

Instead of saying
-¿Cómo está usted?
A more natural way would be:
-¿Cómo está? / ¿Cómo se encuentra?

I think that choosing about talking with tú/vos or usted depends on the speaker. You can talk with tú in situations that using usted would make it more delicated, and be OK, because of the tone, your gestures, etcétera. But to avoid complications, using usted will make things easier.

(lo sé, imposible extraer algo concreto de la madaja de palabras laberinticas que conforman mi respuesta)
Ookami, muchas grácias por tu respuesta. Extraje muy bien (tu inglés casi parece nativo), pero todavía tengo preguntas. ¿Si mi amiga veterinaria se encuentra un cliente hispano (en los EEUU) cuál es lo mejor para decir? ¿Cómo está o cómo estás?

Por cierto, que quiere decir madaja? No lo encuentro en el diccionario. Es slang? No sé casi nada de slang en español. Enseñame por favor.

Small corrections to your English (if you like) ->
1) When you say "as age" and "as a job..." you want to say, "such as age" and "such as a job..."

2) "only on specific" in, not on.

3) maybe just a typo - you meant delicate, not "delicated".

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  #4  
Old August 03, 2011, 07:59 AM
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ookami ookami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmoset View Post
Ookami, muchas grácias por tu respuesta. Extraje muy bien (tu inglés casi parece nativo), pero todavía tengo preguntas. ¿Si mi amiga veterinaria se encuentra un cliente hispano (en los EEUU) cuál es lo mejor para decir? ¿Cómo está o cómo estás?

Por cierto, que quiere decir madaja? No la encuentro en el diccionario. Es slang? No sé casi nada de slang en español. Enseñame por favor.

Small corrections to your English (if you like) ->
1) When you say "as age" and "as a job..." you want to say, "such as age" and "such as a job..."

2) "only on specific" in, not on.

3) maybe just a typo - you meant delicate, not "delicated".

I would say that the best thing for her is to say "¿Cómo está ?". And if she wants to make it more complex, to add the ¿Cómo estás ? variant with young people and with... let's say... cool people (gente "con onda")

Perdón, quise decir "madeja", pero como pensé en poner la palabra "maraña" parece que hice un mix entre ambas...

Thanks for the corrections
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  #5  
Old August 03, 2011, 08:09 AM
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Caballero Caballero is offline
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Quote:
Rarely with old people.
¿Cuantos años tiene una vieja persona? ¿40? ¿60? ¿90? ¿Si se encuentra una persona de 80 años, se usa "usted" o no?
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  #6  
Old August 03, 2011, 11:26 AM
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AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballero View Post
¿Cuantos años tiene una vieja persona persona mayor (viejo/vieja, when addressed to a person is a pejorative)? ¿40? ¿60? ¿90? ¿Si se encuentra una persona de 80 años, se usa "usted" o no?
How about thinking about using "usted" any time you would talk to someone as "Mr./Mrs. X"?

As for when someone is old, anyone older than you deserves being treated with "usted", unless they decide otherwise.
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  #7  
Old August 03, 2011, 11:37 AM
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Thanks a lot Angelica. That's excellent advise.
Additionally in the United States where there is a huge mix of Hispanic culture, it's safe to use Ud. with anybody you don't know.
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Old August 03, 2011, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
As for when someone is old, anyone older than you deserves being treated with "usted", unless they decide otherwise.
But that's a simple way of reducing the question for Spanish learners, but I don't see that use on the streets. For example, I've never seen someone of high social level talking using "usted" with someone clearly inferior in social (thus economical) level. Even if the first is 19 and the otherone is 60... But obviously, if you are learning, the easier way is just to use usted most of the time to avoid complications.
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'Time is a sort of river of passing events, and strong is its current; no sooner is a thing brought to sight than it is swept by and another takes its place, and this too will be swept away.' M.A.
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  #9  
Old August 03, 2011, 07:12 PM
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AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
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Well, that's something different from the use of "usted" to show respect and courtesy to others.
A higher economic rank does not free anyone from being respectful (at least not for a Mexican). And there's of course a "usted" that can be used to detach from people doing services for others, no matter if they're older or younger, which can be as disrespectful as "tú", depending on the intonation it's been given.

For Spanish learners: trust the good manners you were taught at home. Whenever you've learnt to say "sir/ma'am" or when addressing people with their titles (Mr., Dr., Professor, General...), use "usted" and you'll be fine.
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  #10  
Old August 03, 2011, 09:02 PM
Luna Azul Luna Azul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marmoset View Post
Por curiosidad.

Quiero saber si la gente en estos días todavía se usa la palabra y la forma de Usted en situaciones formales. ¿Se ha volvido vuelto obsoleto? ¿Depende del país? ¿Depende de la edad del hablante?

Por ejemplo, mi amiga es veterinaria. A veces quiere usar un poquito de español con sus clientes (los dueños, no los animales ). ¿Siempre puede decir, «Cómo estás?» o hay casos en que debe decir, «Cómo está Usted»?

Muchas gracias.

En muchos casos depende del país, hay países donde "usted" se usa con mucha frecuencia, incluso entre amigos, como es el caso de Colombia.

En ese aspecto Colombia es un país sui generis porque se usan todas las formas. Hay partes donde el "vos" está bastante generalizado, otras en las que sólo se usa "tú" prácticamente con todo el mundo, y otras en las que "usted" es la forma más común.

En general, los que usan "vos" no usan "tú" y viceversa. "Vos" y "tú" son las formas familiares para dirigirse a los amigos y parientes y "usted" cuando se quiere ser más formal, sin importar la clase social, la clase económica, ni la edad de la otra persona.

El "usted" expresa respeto. Yo nunca usaría "tú" con un extraño a quien acabo de conocer por el solo hecho de que sea de una clase social más baja que la mía. Eso no pasa, o al menos no debe pasar. Por otro lado, le he hablado de "tú" a más de una persona de alta jerarquía (incluyendo a un obispo), o a personas mayores que yo, por mi cercanía y amistad con ellos.

Entonces eso de con quién se debe usar "usted" es muy relativo. En general se usa con extraños, así sin más. Tal vez los niños sean la excepción.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
A higher economic rank does not free anyone from being respectful (at least not for a Mexican). Not for a Colombian either.

For Spanish learners: trust the good manners you were taught at home. Whenever you've learnt to say "sir/ma'am" or when addressing people with their titles (Mr., Dr., Professor, General...), use "usted" and you'll be fine.
Buena respuesta Angélica y estoy totalmente de acuerdo contigo.

EDITED to add: I hope my Spanish is understood by Marmoset, the person who asked the original question. If you have problems understanding, let me know and I'll translate it for you..
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Last edited by Luna Azul; August 03, 2011 at 09:09 PM.
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