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  #11  
Old May 09, 2009, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Fazor: "Saber" is used when you can be certain about some kind of knowledge. "Creer" is when you're making a supposition or guess.


Sé que Juan no se ha ido, porque yo tengo las llaves de su coche.
I know Juan hasn't left because I have his car's keys.

Creo que Juan no se ha ido, porque no lo he visto salir.
I think Juan hasn't left because I haven't seen him go out.


Supe que "sé" era conjugación del verbo ser, por el contexto de la oración.
I knew that "sé" was a conjugation of the verb "ser" because of the context of the sentence.

Creí que "sé" era conjugación del verbo "ser", pero en realidad era del verbo "saber".
I thought that "sé" was a conjugation of the verb "ser", but it was actually from the verb "saber".


@Chileno:

Sé que "to be" significa "ser" o "estar" porque me lo enseñaron en la escuela.
I know "to be" means "ser" or "estar" because I was taught that in school.

Creí que si lo ponía completo, no tendrías qué corregirme.
I thought if I wrote it completely, you wouldn't have anything to correct.

I was under the impression that creer was not used to make suppositions or guesses, thus the reason it doesn't take the subjunctive.
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  #12  
Old May 10, 2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Fazor: "Saber" is used when you can be certain about some kind of knowledge. "Creer" is when you're making a supposition or guess.


Sé que Juan no se ha ido, porque yo tengo las llaves de su coche.
I know Juan hasn't left because I have his car's keys.

Creo que Juan no se ha ido, porque no lo he visto salir.
I think Juan hasn't left because I haven't seen him go out.


Supe que "sé" era conjugación del verbo ser, por el contexto de la oración.
I knew that "sé" was a conjugation of the verb "ser" because of the context of the sentence.

Creí que "sé" era conjugación del verbo "ser", pero en realidad era del verbo "saber".
I thought that "sé" was a conjugation of the verb "ser", but it was actually from the verb "saber".


@Chileno:

Sé que "to be" significa "ser" o "estar" porque me lo enseñaron en la escuela.
I know "to be" means "ser" or "estar" because I was taught that in school.

Creí que si lo ponía completo, no tendrías qué corregirme.
I thought if I wrote it completely, you wouldn't have anything to correct.

Perfecto.
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  #13  
Old May 10, 2009, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by literacola View Post
I was under the impression that creer was not used to make suppositions or guesses, thus the reason it doesn't take the subjunctive.

It depends on what you believe.

Not all the cases of "creer" imply suppositions of course, but I was answering Fazor's question about the opposition "creer"-"saber".


As for certainties:

Creo en Dios.
I believe in God.

Creo que nuestro deber es ser honestos.
I believe our duty is to be honest.

Creo que seremos muy felices.
I think we will be very happy.


@Hernán:
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  #14  
Old May 11, 2009, 08:54 AM
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Creo que hoy es lunes. / Sé que hoy es lunes. Creer / Saber pretty much interchangebale in this context.

Creo que Los Indians de Cleveland perdió ayer. / Sé que Los Indians de Clevelandperdió ayer. 'Creer' less sure about the statement than 'saber'.

¿Verdad?
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  #15  
Old May 11, 2009, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
Creo que hoy es lunes. / Sé que hoy es lunes. Creer / Saber pretty much interchangebale in this context.

Creo que Los Indians de Cleveland perdió ayer. / Sé que Los Indians de Clevelandperdió ayer. 'Creer' less sure about the statement than 'saber'.

¿Verdad?
I still wouldn't call them interchangeable.

Creo = I think
Sé = I know

It's the same difference as with those statements in English.
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  #16  
Old May 11, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
I still wouldn't call them interchangeable.

Creo = I think
Sé = I know

It's the same difference as with those statements in English.
So you wouldn't use 'creer' in the first example (Creo que hoy es lunes), unless of course you've been locked in a cave for an indisclosed amount of time and weren't really sure what day it is.

I've been using Creer because it's easy to conjugate. I guess there's another irregular verb for me to memorize.
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  #17  
Old May 11, 2009, 10:26 AM
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I would say "creo que hoy es lunes" whenever I would say "I think today is Monday" in English. That is, I believe it to be true, but I'm not 100% sure, or I know it's Monday but someone else is saying it's Tuesday, and I don't want to offend.

Otherwise, if it's Monday, I'd just say "Hoy es lunes" ("It's Monday today").
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  #18  
Old May 11, 2009, 10:31 AM
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This got me thinking of the various tenses of "saber", which brought me to the past tense.

But that made me think of a sentence like "I knew you would have fun." What tense is "would have fun", so I know what to study?
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  #19  
Old May 11, 2009, 10:40 AM
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Oh, many things happened while I was writing this... still I hope you'll find it useful, Fazor.



Creo que hoy es lunes. / Sé que hoy es lunes.

I wouldn't say they're interchangeable...
"Creo" still means you're not sure. Maybe you've been on holidays and today it's the same as the days before so you can't tell at first if it's Monday or not.
To say "sé que hoy es lunes" needs a much more special reason to be said. It would mean you don't have access to a calendar and you had to count the days on your own...
If you want to imply you're sure today it's Monday, you simply say "Hoy es lunes".


As for the Indians example, you're right.

Creo que los Indios de Cleveland perdieron ayer.
Usually, the team names that sound similar in Spanish are translated (Cardinals-Cardenales, Indians-Indios, 49ers-"cuarentaynueves", etc.).
Not the same case of names like the Raiders, the Lakers, the Dodgers... which are kept in English because it's hard to associate translation and name.
...And the verb is conjugated in plural ("perdieron"), because you said "los Indios"; if you had said "el equipo", "perdió" would have been correct.


Sé que los Indios de Cleveland perdieron ayer.
This sentence is correct, although since this happened yesterday, for reasons of style, I would suggest you rather said "Supe que los Indios de Cleveland perdieron ayer".
If the match were happening now, it would be fine to say "Sé que los Indios de Cleveland están perdiendo".
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  #20  
Old May 11, 2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
"Supe que los Indios de Cleveland perdieron ayer".
If the match were happening now, it would be fine to say "Sé que los Indios de Cleveland están perdiendo".
Really? In English, I rarely use the past-tense of "know" (knew) unless talking about something that I use to know, but had since forgotten. (Or talking about an additional detail I didn't know, like "I knew there was an accident yesterday, but I didn't know it was your brother driving.")

I wouldn't say "I knew the Indians lost yesterday." (unless I forgot since) because, if I knew it yesterday, and I haven't forgotten, then I still know it.

"How did the Indians do this weekend?"
"I missed Saturday's game, but I know they lost yesterday."
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