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Ejercicio de por y para

 

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  #1  
Old August 10, 2009, 08:55 AM
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Smile Ejercicio de por y para

Aquí un pequeño ejecicio de por y para. Lo apreciaré muchisimo si alguien podría revisarlo / corregirlo


1. Un día hace mucho tiempo Cenicienta fue para comprarse unos zapatos en la oferta.

2. Estos zapatos de hecho fueran demasiado pequeños pero sin embargo decidó comprarlos por 10 cenicentavos para ir a bailar muy puesto.

3. El dinero se lo había dado su abuelita diciendo de comprar algo de bueno por ella porque su abuelita fue muy vieja y no aún pudo ir para comprarlo por su cuento. Le agredeció a su abuela por este regalo.
(por ella - in her stead, in her place).

4. Sus amigos imaginarios se sintieron alegros por ella, aunque opinasen que sería mejor si hubiese elegido unos zapatos más cómodos, como Like Air.

5. Ceni por el contrario fue tan decidida intentar hacerse notado por Prince Ipe Azul que no le importan a ella los pies rojos y la cara rojiza.

6. Fue completamente preparada.. había confirmado su invitación por correo de paloma, y su cenicoche fue lista para llevarla yendo por los calles grises como la ceniza.

7. Por unos días estuvo acostumbrandose a los zapatos (sin éxito) para que fuese capaz de bailar con ellos para hoy.

8. Cuando llegó al palacio resultó que sr. Azul ya se fue, saliendo por (hacia?) Cenamá con un perro verde del sexo masculino... Todo su gozo en un pozo...
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Last edited by EmpanadaRica; August 10, 2009 at 08:59 AM.
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  #2  
Old August 10, 2009, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post
Aquí un pequeño ejecicio de por y para. (Lo) apreciaré muchisimo si alguien podría pudiera revisarlo / corregirlo


1. Un día, hace mucho tiempo, Cenicienta fue para a comprarse unos zapatos en la oferta.

"Ir" is normally followed by "a". When you have the reflexive form "irse", you can use "para".

Se fue para no volver.
Me fui de la fiesta para ver mi programa favorito.


2. Estos zapatos de hecho fueran fueron demasiado pequeños pero/sin embargo* decidó comprarlos por 10 cenicentavos para ir a bailar muy puesto. I don't understand what you mean by "muy puesto".

*Many people use "pero sin embargo" as a common sentence, and maybe because of being so widely used it has become accepted, but to me it still sounds incorrect. Either "pero" or "sin embargo".

3. El dinero se lo había dado su abuelita diciendo de comprar diciéndole que comprara/para que comprara algo de bueno por ella porque su abuelita fue era muy vieja y ya no aúnpudo podía ir para a comprarlo por su cuento cuenta/por sí misma. Le agredeció a su abuela por este regalo.
(por ella - in her stead, in her place).


4. Sus amigos imaginarios se sintieron alegros alegres/contentos por ella, aunque opinasen/opinaran que sería mejor si hubiese/hubiera elegido unos zapatos más cómodos, como Like Air.

5. Ceni, por el contrario, fue estaba tan decidida intentar a hacerse notado notar por (el) Prince Ipe Azul que no le importan importaron (a ella) los pies rojos y la cara rojiza.

6. Fue completamente preparada.. había confirmado su invitación por correo de paloma, y su cenicoche fue lista estuvo listo para llevarla yendo por los las calles grises como la ceniza.

Attention: the dictionary is your friend... if you have doubts about the gender of words, check them first.

7. Por unos días estuvo acostumbrándose tratando de acostumbrarse a los zapatos (sin éxito) para que fuese ser capaz de bailar con ellos para hoy. The last "para" is redundant.

"Para que fuera" would need that the subject was different, but if it's the same, you need an infinitive instead "para ser"... I think Irmamar has already talked about it in some topic before.

8. Cuando llegó al palacio resultó que el Sr. Azul ya se fue había ido, saliendo por (hacia?) para Cenamá con un perro verde del sexo masculino... Todo su gozo en un pozo...

All titles (Sr., Sra., Srita., príncipe, coronel,...) must have an article before. And the first letter of all abbreviations must be a capital letter (with very few exceptions).
Nice story, Empanada!!

Corrections and comments above.
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Last edited by AngelicaDeAlquezar; August 10, 2009 at 08:38 PM.
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  #3  
Old August 11, 2009, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
Nice story, Empanada!!

Corrections and comments above.

¡Muchas gracias por tu ayuda y las correciones Angelica!

I will make a mental note to use only 'a' with ir, and 'para' with irse when appropriate. Very helpful!

I think I understand your reservations about 'pero sin embargo' - we have many of these 'double' uses (i.e. words with similar meanings, placed alongside which always feels a bit redundant to me). Would it be better if I placed ' Aunque' at the beginning of the sentence to avoid this, or could I just leave it out entirely?

Yes I have made some silly gender mistakes sorry I know it's 'el coche' and 'la calle' but I did not have enough time yesterday to review it properly (I wrote it the day before). I usually do check in the dictionary when in doubt about the gender. Thanx for your advice!
You' re right it is better to look it up when in doubt - and although I do try to follow the rules about agreement/ congruence between nouns and adjectives, I do still make mistakes in this because we don' t do this in my native language, similar to English. I hope in time it will become more automatic.

I'm not quite sure what you meant with the 'para que fuera' versus 'para ser' sorry. I remember one correction about 'para que ' + subjuntivo which I tried to apply here. I am not sure I read or remember the other one, sorry there is a lot of information on this forum.

I'll use el/la/los/les + capital letter abbreviation for titles from now on

¡Muchas gracias!
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Last edited by EmpanadaRica; August 11, 2009 at 01:34 AM.
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  #4  
Old August 11, 2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post
[...]

I think I understand your reservations about 'pero sin embargo' - we have many of these 'double' uses (i.e. words with similar meanings, placed alongside which always feels a bit redundant to me). Would it be better if I placed ' Aunque' at the beginning of the sentence to avoid this, or could I just leave it out entirely?
What I meant was that your sentence will sound much better either with "pero" or with "sin embargo", but not both.

You can say the same in many ways:

· Los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños pero decidió comprarlos.
· Los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños, sin embargo, decidió comprarlos.
· Aunque los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños, decidió comprarlos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post
[...]

I'm not quite sure what you meant with the 'para que fuera' versus 'para ser' sorry. I remember one correction about 'para que ' + subjuntivo which I tried to apply here. I am not sure I read or remember the other one, sorry there is a lot of information on this forum.

[...]
When your sentence has the same subject, you use "para + infinitive"; when the subject is different, you use "para que".

Cenicienta trató de acostumbrarse a los zapatos para poder bailar con el príncipe.
Here you're always talking about Cenicienta.

(To me, "Cenicienta trató de acostumbrarse a los zapatos para que pudiera bailar con el príncipe" sounds clumsy in Spanish, but Irmamar has quoted the rule that this is not just clumsy but incorrect.)


La abuela le dio dinero a Cenicienta para que (Cenicienta) pudiera comprar sus zapatos.
(Here you're talking about both, grandmother and Cenicienta)
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Old August 11, 2009, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
What I meant was that your sentence will sound much better either with "pero" or with "sin embargo", but not both.

You can say the same in many ways:

· Los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños pero decidió comprarlos.
· Los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños, sin embargo, decidió comprarlos.
· Aunque los zapatos eran demasiado pequeños, decidió comprarlos.
Hola Angelica,

i Gracias por tu repuesta! Yes I understood what you meant. The reason I ask is because these 'double occurances' in Dutch are not uncommen, in fact quite usual when placed in different parts of the sentence. Thanx for the examples - So basically I can use either one and it will be sufficient.!


Quote:
When your sentence has the same subject, you use "para + infinitive"; when the subject is different, you use "para que".

Cenicienta trató de acostumbrarse a los zapatos para poder bailar con el príncipe.
Here you're always talking about Cenicienta.

(To me, "Cenicienta trató de acostumbrarse a los zapatos para que pudiera bailar con el príncipe" sounds clumsy in Spanish, but Irmamar has quoted the rule that this is not just clumsy but incorrect.)
Ok I wasn't aware of this because I have not used 'para que' so much yet. I don't think I have read this post about its use. Maybe I should get a better grasp of the difference in use between 'para' and 'para que' before I use it.

Quote:
La abuela le dio dinero a Cenicienta para que (Cenicienta) pudiera comprar sus zapatos.
(Here you're talking about both, grandmother and Cenicienta)
Yes, I see.. whereas, if I would be using 'para' this could only pertain to Ceni I suppose, because her grandmother is giving her the money, for that purpose?

Hmmm ok thanx a lot, this has given me a lot to think about in using 'para' vs. 'para que' . Just out of curiosity, is 'para que' used a lot in Spanish or would people usually use 'para' instead?

In what kind of sentences would you be more inclined to use 'para que' for instance, could you give me an example?

¡Muchas gracias Angelica!
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Old August 12, 2009, 01:39 AM
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Good question and, as always, difficult

We use "para" when the subject of the two sentences is the same (+ inf.):

Me visto (yo) para poder (yo) ir a la fiesta.
Estudia (él) para llegar a ser (él) un buen médico.

We use "para que" when the subject of the two sentences is different (+ subj):

Trabajo (yo) para que (tú) puedas ir a la universidad.
Te esperaré (yo) en el bar para que puedas cambiarte (tú) de ropa tranquilamente.
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Old August 21, 2009, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Good question and, as always, difficult

We use "para" when the subject of the two sentences is the same (+ inf.):

Me visto (yo) para poder (yo) ir a la fiesta.
Estudia (él) para llegar a ser (él) un buen médico.

We use "para que" when the subject of the two sentences is different (+ subj):

Trabajo (yo) para que (tú) puedas ir a la universidad.
Te esperaré (yo) en el bar para que puedas cambiarte (tú) de ropa tranquilamente.


Lo siento mucho irma, no he visto tu repuesta hasta ahora!!

¡¡ Muchas gracias por tu explicación, muy clara y sencilla como siempre !!
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Old August 22, 2009, 12:13 AM
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Don't worry. You're welcome
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