Ask a Question

(Create a thread)
Go Back   Spanish language learning forums > Spanish & English Languages > Grammar


Order of adjectives

 

This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 01, 2009, 02:20 PM
brute's Avatar
brute brute is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: en el norte de Inglaterra
Posts: 526
Native Language: British English
brute is on a distinguished road
Order of adjectives

In English there is a "rule" of syntax that few native English speakers have ever been taught. Foreign students, however, need to learn it.
This concerns the order of adjectives attached to a single noun in a sentence.
Native English speakers seem to follow the rule intuitively.
One can classify adjectives into a sequence of 7 types :
1 Personal opinion: beautiful, interesting
2 Size: big, small
3 Age: young, old
4 Shape: round, square
5 Colour: red, yellow
6 Nationality: Spanish, English
7 Material: plastic, glass
8 Purpose: hearing (aid)

So, one would say:
An interesting 1 little 2
old 3
black 5
American 6
woman.

Any other order sounds "un-English"
Do Spanish adjectives follow a similar sequence?
Reply With Quote
   
Get rid of these ads by registering for a free Tomísimo account.
  #2  
Old June 01, 2009, 02:40 PM
irmamar's Avatar
irmamar irmamar is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,071
Native Language: Español
irmamar is on a distinguished road
In Spanish there isn't a rule to order the adjectives, just the use of comma and a conjunction (y, e, etc.). Usually, when you use several adjectives, one of them is in front of the name (usually to highlight something). Furthermore, in Spanish, two (or three) adjectives of your example become into a noun: old + woman = vieja (+ little = viejecita)

Una interesante viejecita, negra y americana.

Anyway, you must be careful of the adjective you put in front of the name. A different sentence would be:

Una vieja negra (or "una negra vieja"), pequeña y americana (here I've omitted "interesting")

Anyway, I'm grateful because of your list
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old June 01, 2009, 02:44 PM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by brute View Post
Do Spanish adjectives follow a similar sequence?
I'll let a native speaker answer that. But I just wanted to say great post and great information!

Here are some more examples:

little old rusty car
big red barn
hot running water
spicy colorful Mexican food

If you put the adjectives in any other order, it doesn't sound correct. (although there is some leeway with adjectives that fit into more than one category, such as "rusty" or "colorful" in the above examples)
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old June 01, 2009, 02:53 PM
irmamar's Avatar
irmamar irmamar is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,071
Native Language: Español
irmamar is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
I'll let a native speaker answer that. But I just wanted to say great post and great information!

Here are some more examples:

little old rusty car
big red barn
hot running water
spicy colorful Mexican food

If you put the adjectives in any other order, it doesn't sound correct. (although there is some leeway with adjectives that fit into more than one category, such as "rusty" or "colorful" in the above examples)
Un viejo cochecito oxidado - un viejo y oxidado cochecito - un pequeño coche, viejo y oxidado, etc.
El gran establo rojo.
Agua corriente caliente (agua corriente siempre es en este orden)
Comida picante mexicana de colores vivos - Picante comida mexicana de vivos colores - Comida mexicana, picante y de vivos colores, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old June 01, 2009, 03:12 PM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Un viejo cochecito oxidado - un viejo y oxidado cochecito - un pequeño coche, viejo y oxidado, etc.
El gran establo rojo.
Agua corriente caliente (agua corriente siempre es en este orden)
Comida picante mexicana de colores vivos - Picante comida mexicana de vivos colores - Comida mexicana, picante y de vivos colores, etc.
So I think there is more flexibility in this respect in Spanish. But in some of your examples, you used "viejo y oxidado" in that order. Would you ever say "oxidado y viejo"?
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old June 01, 2009, 03:29 PM
Fazor's Avatar
Fazor Fazor is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Middle of Ohio, USA
Posts: 626
Native Language: American English
Fazor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
(although there is some leeway with adjectives that fit into more than one category, such as "rusty" or "colorful" in the above examples)
I had started to type a response earlier, but didn't post it because I was lacking in some information.

But anyway, I agree. It seems that adjectives that describe similar features can be interchanged, but that there's still an underlying order to them. I never learned an order, so I don't know if it's a set grammatical rule, or just an artifact of how we're use to saying it. I do know an English grammar expert though, so I'll ask her.

It seems to me that the order is

[Opinion adjectives*] -> [Physical Features: Age, size, ect.] -> [Color] -> [Personal distinctions: Race, Nationality, religion, etc.].

But that leaves large gaps that maybe someone, or ourselves as a collective effort, can fill in.

Oh, and I astrix'ed the "opinion adjectives" because playing with them, you seem to be able to move them anywhere you want and it works, but some places sound better than others.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old June 01, 2009, 03:59 PM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
I think what the innate grammatical rule boils down to is that the subjective, least defining adjectives are farthest away from the noun, while the most defining, most intrinsic, least subjective adjectives are closest to the noun.

So taking as an example, "the nice, smiling American lady", we can see that above all, the lady is an American lady-- being American is a more important piece of information than the fact that she is nice or smiling. Then we have "smiling", which is less important, it is something that can change easier, but it is less subjective than "nice".
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old June 01, 2009, 05:30 PM
bobjenkins's Avatar
bobjenkins bobjenkins is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: España próximamente??
Posts: 2,923
Native Language: Inglés
bobjenkins is on a distinguished road
gracias, he esperado sobre,"cuáles orden del ajectivos es correcto, no reglas en este caso.
__________________
"There´s always money in the banana stand michael!"
--george bluthe sir
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old June 01, 2009, 07:25 PM
Fazor's Avatar
Fazor Fazor is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Middle of Ohio, USA
Posts: 626
Native Language: American English
Fazor is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
I think what the innate grammatical rule boils down to is that the subjective, least defining adjectives are farthest away from the noun, while the most defining, most intrinsic, least subjective adjectives are closest to the noun.
That's pretty much what my "grammar expert" said. Most important (or personal) adjectives closest. Also, there's certain adjective pairings that always go in order together just because they're known. Best example is from above "Little old lady". "Little old" is just used so much, the pairing is pretty much automatic.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old June 02, 2009, 06:00 AM
brute's Avatar
brute brute is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: en el norte de Inglaterra
Posts: 526
Native Language: British English
brute is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fazor View Post
I had started to type a response earlier, but didn't post it because I was lacking in some information.

But anyway, I agree. It seems that adjectives that describe similar features can be interchanged, but that there's still an underlying order to them. I never learned an order, so I don't know if it's a set grammatical rule, or just an artifact of how we're use to saying it. I do know an English grammar expert though, so I'll ask her.

It seems to me that the order is

[Opinion adjectives*] -> [Physical Features: Age, size, ect.] -> [Color] -> [Personal distinctions: Race, Nationality, religion, etc.].

But that leaves large gaps that maybe someone, or ourselves as a collective effort, can fill in.

Oh, and I astrix'ed the "opinion adjectives" because playing with them, you seem to be able to move them anywhere you want and it works, but some places sound better than others.
This raises another question: What is the purpose of "rules" of grammar.

Are they designed to fossilise the way a language is used?
Are they simply an attempt to classify the way a language is used?

The former inhibits the evolution of a language, the latter encourages it.

The Academie Française has always done its best to keep French as it was in the time of Molière. They now seem to be losing the battle to prevent the invasion of English.

However, the English and Spanish languages seem not to be "ruled" by their so called "rules" and have been allowed to diverge into many interesting varietions. The rules are used to describe the language and not to prescribe it.

Perhaps the francophones are scared that their language will be diluted out of existence by contamination with other more dominant languages.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
adjective order, adjective pairing, adjectives, nouns, syntax, word order

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Word order and verb endings ..sexyredhair..756 Grammar 10 November 11, 2008 02:36 PM
-ous ending adjectives Alfonso Grammar 1 April 04, 2008 03:43 PM
adjective noun order pogo Grammar 5 October 03, 2007 01:15 PM
shortening of the adjectives Randall Grammar 1 July 07, 2007 07:30 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:23 PM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X