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"la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho"

 

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  #1  
Old January 28, 2013, 09:13 PM
somediego somediego is offline
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"la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho"

Hola, I'm a beginner in learning spanish and new to this great forum,
Buenos días a todos!

I feel confused by these lines in the poem of borges "la moneda de hierro":

Aquí está la moneda de hierro. Interroguemos
Las dos contrarias caras que serán la respuesta
De la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho:


Does "la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho" mean "the stubborn question that no one has asked" or "...no one has asked to himself" or other meaning?



Pls help me to clarify this, Gracias!
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  #2  
Old January 28, 2013, 10:01 PM
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Rusty Rusty is offline
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You almost got it!

... the obstinate question that no one has not asked himself ...

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Old January 28, 2013, 11:23 PM
somediego somediego is offline
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Gracias Rusty!
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Old January 28, 2013, 11:25 PM
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¡No hay de qué!
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Old January 31, 2013, 10:41 AM
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"la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho"

shouldn't it read........... "la terca demanda que nadie nos ha hecho" (??)
or.......la terca demanda que nadie no ha hecho....nadie no se ha hecho almost implies or does imply "one hasn't asked oneself"....... right?

Maybe I am just confused......

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Old January 31, 2013, 11:11 AM
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Perikles Perikles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elaina View Post
Maybe I am just confused......
And so am I. I don't see the two negatives working. The question is
Quote:
¿Por qué precisa un hombre que una mujer lo quiera?
so I don't understand the 3rd line with or without a 'not'

And welcome
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Old January 31, 2013, 04:04 PM
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... that no one has asked himself
-is not the same as-
... that no one has not asked himself

If we throw out the 'not', we're dealing with a question that no one has asked themselves.
With the 'not', we're talking about a question that everyone has asked themselves.

Right?
While we may question why Borges wrote it the way he did, I believe the translation is correct.
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  #8  
Old February 01, 2013, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
If we throw out the 'not', we're dealing with a question that no one has asked themselves.
With the 'not', we're talking about a question that everyone has asked themselves.

Right?
.
Right - I see the grammatical difference well enough, I just don't see how Borges could make either of those assertions. Ah well.
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  #9  
Old February 01, 2013, 03:01 AM
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irmamar irmamar is offline
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Two negatives in Spanish = One negative in English.

La terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho = La terca demanda que nadie se ha hecho.

Here 'no' is an intensifier, that's all.

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Old February 01, 2013, 04:10 PM
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I was about to agree with Irmamar, but reading the whole poem I think that it is not the case.

The whole poem by Borges reads as follows,

Aquí está la moneda de hierro. Interroguemos
las dos contrarias caras que serán la respuesta
de la terca demanda que nadie no se ha hecho:
¿Por qué precisa un hombre que una mujer lo quiera?

Miremos. En el orbe superior se entretejan
el firmamento cuádruple que sostiene el diluvio
y las inalterables estrellas planetarias.
Adán, el joven padre, y el joven Paraíso.

La tarde y la mañana. Dios en cada criatura.
En ese laberinto puro está tu reflejo.
Arrojemos de nuevo la moneda de hierro
que es también un espejo magnífico. Su reverso
es nadie y nada y sombra y ceguera. Eso eres.
De hierro las dos caras labran un solo eco.
Tus manos y tu lengua son testigos infieles.
Dios es el inasible centro de la sortija.
No exalta ni condena. Obra mejor: olvida.
Maculado de infamia ¿por qué no han de quererte?
En la sombra del otro buscamos nuestra sombra;
en el cristal del otro, nuestro cristal recíproco.


Rusty's interpretation is correct.

I believe Borges saying "que nadie no se ha hecho" means "que todo el mundo se ha hecho".

Todos nos hemos preguntado eso... pero el uso "raro" de los dos negativos es un recurso para atraer la atención, resaltar el concepto, y mantener el uso de "nadie" como en el resto del poema... es decir... "nadie" repetido en el poema... como antítesis de "todos"...

My two euros...
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Last edited by JPablo; February 02, 2013 at 09:26 PM.
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