Ser/Estar question.....

[laepelba]

Once again, I have run up against a situation where I don't understand the use of ser vs. estar.....

The sentence is as follows:
Los padres de Tomás no creían que él fuera lo suficientemente responsable como para usar el coche de la familia.

Why is it "fuera" and not "estuviera"?

While you're at it, could someone please also explain to me the meaning of "como para"?

Thank you!!

[Perikles]

My dictionary only gives ser for use with responsable, with no estar option. :

responsable1 adjetivo
A [ser]
1 (serio, concienzudo) responsible
2 (de una tarea) responsable de algo responsible for something; las personas responsables de vigilar la entrada the people responsible for watching the entrance

B (culpable) responsible; (con obligación de indemnizar) liable; responsable por daños liable for damages; responsable de algo responsible/liable for something; te hago responsable de lo que pueda pasar I am holding you responsible for what happens; no es responsable de sus actos he's not responsible for his actions; eres responsable ante mí del resultado you're answerable o accountable to me for the result; nadie se ha hecho responsable del atentado no one has claimed responsibility for the attack

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

"Responsable" is a feature of your personality. You can't "estar" responsable, as that would mean you're only behaving responsible for one specific action or moment. Very unlikely. You're either responsible or not.

[laepelba]

AHHHH!!!! So it's the "responsable" that triggers the "ser" and not the "condition". That's what my thinking was!! And now I see that WordReference has the same notation: [ser]

THANKS!!!!!!!!!

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

"Responsable" is a feature of your personality. You can't "estar" responsable, as that would mean you're only behaving responsible for one specific action or moment. Very unlikely. You're either responsible or not.

I understand that statement when referring to a character trait of either being a responsible person or not, but it doesn't really make sense (to me) in the case where, say, you have caused damage:

la ventana está rota: ¿quién es el responsable?

That would to me be an excellent opportunity to use estar in the sense that for a particular instance, it was your fault, but not generally. Ah well.

[laepelba]

And, well, in this situation, I was thinking "estar" because "responsibility" is a characteristic which tends to mature in young people. I it as he is not YET responsible, but will be someday, as he grows up.....

[aleCcowaN]

I suppose the simplest explanation lies in responsibleness being like riding a bicycle: once you got it, you cant' go back. Basically, there's no difference between "no creían que fuera lo suficientemente responsable" and "no creían que su novia fuera virgen". I think that the impossibility of using "estar" with one case explains the other one.

"como para" is a difficult one because it doesn't translate univocally in Spanish because it bridges and carries part of the meaning of the preceding clause to the following clause.

Tiene el potencial de manejar un auto responsablemente ---> Es responsable como para manejar un auto

[laepelba]

OK!! I got it for the explanation on why "ser" with "responsable"!! Thanks, Alec....

Still fuzzy on "como para", but that is the least of my worries right now.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I understand that statement when referring to a character trait of either being a responsible person or not, but it doesn't really make sense (to me) in the case where, say, you have caused damage:

la ventana está rota: ¿quién es el responsable?

That would to me be an excellent opportunity to use estar in the sense that for a particular instance, it was your fault, but not generally. Ah well.

In that case, "responsable" is not an adjective, but a noun.

-¿Está el responsable de la oficina?
-Sí, el responsable está en el piso de arriba.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

In that case, "responsable" is not an adjective, but a noun. .

good point - I knew something wasn't right. Thanks.