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Ejercicio con el subjuntivo (14-17)

 

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Old October 10, 2010, 04:38 PM
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Question Ejercicio con el subjuntivo (14-17)

I am still doing exercises in my workbook in the "subjunctive" section. This one has me confused. It immediately follows a section on choosing between the subjunctive and the indicative in certain situations (like expressing doubt using "tal vez" or "quizas", etc., or situations that mean "no matter how much/far/soon/etc."). The exercise gives 8 sentences (in Spanish) with the verb missing, indicates a verb in the indicative, and instructs you to choose between the indicative and the subjunctive. This led me to believe that there would be several of the 8 sentences that would use the indicative. But when I checked the answers in the back of the book, they were all in the subjunctive except one. Urrggghhhh.....

Here are the directions:
Escribe la forma apropiada de subjuntivo o de indicativo.

And here are the 8 sentences:
(1) Marta no va a encontrar un libro interesante por más que lo ____________ (buscar) en la biblioteca.
(2) Juanita no gana peso por mucho que __________ (comer).
(3) Que yo ____________ (saber), Uds. tienen que asumir las responsabilidades.
(4) Puede ser que la mujer o el hombre ideal nunca __________ (llegar).
(5) No quiere ver la película española porque ___________ (pensar) que es mala.
(6) ¿Aceptas su decisión, aunque ella ___________ (decir) lo que diga?
(7) Posiblemente nosotros _____________ (aceptar) las surgencias del delegado.
(8) Que ella ____________ (recordar), nunca encuentra nada bueno en las subastas.

Answers:
(1) busque
(2) coma
(3) sepa
(4) llegue
(5) peinsa
(6) diga
(7) aceptemos
(8) recuerde

My questions:
(5) Is this indicative (the only one) because it is most likely a bad movie?
(6) Nope. I don't begin to understand this one, especially given the subjunctive in the latter use of decir. Help?
(7) Couldn't this be either subjunctive or indicative, depending on how likely "we" are to accept said suggestions?

Sigh...........
Thank you for any help offered!!
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  #2  
Old October 10, 2010, 05:34 PM
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Where do I start?

5) It could be the best or the worst and we'll still use indicative there.

First, "él piensa que es mala", second, he decided "no verla". No matter the sentence is laid in a way the consequence is shown first and its cause later, we still need a real and operational cause for the consequence to exist.

Getting confused: "Él no irá a ver la película mientras piense que es mala". Has "pensar que es mala" ceased to be here a real and operational cause? Nope, but it is additionally laid as a suspensive condition: "la verá" the moment he cease to think it is bad.

6) This is a bit strange sentence (also 3 and 8 are a little odd). It means
"¿Aceptas su decisión decida ella lo que decida?" meaning "sin importar lo que decida" (whatever she decides)

7) "posiblemente" + future ---> "aceptemos" / There's no place to indicative here.
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Old October 10, 2010, 06:05 PM
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Thanks, Alec!!

#5 - I totally understand your first point. After you say "getting confused" is confusing to me, but I'm okay with that, because you answered my original question.

#6 - I'm glad you said that the sentence is a bit strange. I was having trouble with the meaning. I like what you wrote better with "...decida lo que decida" because that part of the book has one of three examples of subjunctive use "subjunctive + lo que + subjunctive" meaning "no matter what". That makes a lot more sense to me than the "diga" stuff...

#7 - DOH! I knew that ... future ... subjunctive.

Thanks so much, Alec!!
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Old October 11, 2010, 04:25 PM
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Just a note on the title of the thread...
"Subjuntivo" (in Spanish without the "c" of English "Subjunctive".

Otherwise, agree with the above. (I did the exercise before reading the rest of the thread, and I definitely got the only indicative sentence 5.)

No es que yo piense una cosa u otra, o que tú creas esto o aquello... es que yo creo que lo que es obvio es obvio, y lo que sea difícil de evaluar... eso es más subjuntivo...

(Just as a further 'exercise' on noting how I use subjunctive and indicative above...)

Also on 7, on a very loose, colloquial speech, one could have an indicative as in

Posiblemente nosotros *aceptaremos las surgencias del delegado.

Or something like,

Posiblemente nosotros acabaremos aceptando las surgencias del delegado.

But better (or correctly) with subjunctive,

Posiblemente nosotros acabemos aceptando las surgencias del delegado.
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Old October 13, 2010, 09:41 PM
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Moderator!!?? Moderator!!?? Please fix my silly spelling error in the title of this thread.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPablo View Post
Just a note on the title of the thread...
"Subjuntivo" (in Spanish without the "c" of English "Subjunctive". THANKS!!

Otherwise, agree with the above. (I did the exercise before reading the rest of the thread, and I definitely got the only indicative sentence 5.)

No es que yo piense una cosa u otra, o que tú creas esto o aquello... es que yo creo que lo que es obvio es obvio, y lo que sea difícil de evaluar... eso es más subjuntivo...

(Just as a further 'exercise' on noting how I use subjunctive and indicative above...) <-- Yes, I get that! Thanks!!

Also on 7, on a very loose, colloquial speech, one could have an indicative as in

Posiblemente nosotros *aceptaremos las surgencias del delegado.

Or something like,

Posiblemente nosotros acabaremos aceptando las surgencias del delegado.

But better (or correctly) with subjunctive,

Posiblemente nosotros acabemos aceptando las surgencias del delegado.
Hmmm ... I'm not so sure I'm following your points about #7......
Thanks, Pablo!!
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Old October 14, 2010, 02:27 AM
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If you are almost sure, you can use indicative after "quizá(s)" and "posiblemente". If your degree of certainty is short, use subjunctive:

Posiblemente nosotros acabaremos aceptando... (there is a great probability).
Posiblemente nosotros acabemos aceptando... (this is a possibility among others, it's not so sure).

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Old October 14, 2010, 05:32 AM
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So, my mathematical mind kicks in.... Use indicative if there is something like 80-90% certainty, but subjunctive if it's less sure than that? Or is it even higher ... 95%=indicative, the rest use subjunctive? Or less....?
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Old October 14, 2010, 05:58 AM
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It's less mathematical and more psychological. People who don't want to be seen as compromising about that piece of information will use subjunctive even with a 99.9% probability. Sometimes subjunctive is just "I keep the option of changing my opinion". Other people will use indicative when probability is 50% just because they perceive you may benefit -perhaps, feel better- from hearing that.

Thus, being so personal, every person develops his/her own style. I have no doubt yours will weight probabilities, and that's 100% OK
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Old October 14, 2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Moderator!!?? Moderator!!?? Please fix my silly spelling error in the title of this thread.....
Done.
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Old October 14, 2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
It's less mathematical and more psychological. People who don't want to be seen as compromising about that piece of information will use subjunctive even with a 99.9% probability. Sometimes subjunctive is just "I keep the option of changing my opinion". Other people will use indicative when probability is 50% just because they perceive you may benefit -perhaps, feel better- from hearing that.

Thus, being so personal, every person develops his/her own style. I have no doubt yours will weight probabilities, and that's 100% OK
You're SO right. I will probably (99% sure) use subjunctive less often than most other people because I speak in Black&White more often (99% of the time) than most people. LOL!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
Done.
THANK YOU!!
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