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IO - necessary in certain commands?

 

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  #1  
Old January 02, 2012, 04:16 AM
wafflestomp wafflestomp is offline
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IO - necessary in certain commands?

Hey guys,

I've been confusing myself a lot lately on this. Basically, let's say I want to tell you to hit John over the head with a hammer. Would it be golpeéle a Juan con un martillo, or would the le not be included? What about "tell him it is raining". Would that be dile a él que lleuve? Or is the le not needed there? I probably already know the answer but I'm confusing myself too much lol

Happy new year guys!
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  #2  
Old January 02, 2012, 09:11 AM
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AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
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The use of pronouns can change from region to region, but in Mexico it's necessary in most cases.

If you're using Juan's name and just want to order he's been hit with a hammer: Golpea/golpee a Juan con un martillo.
In this case, Juan is a direct object, so there's no place for an IO pronoun: golpéelo/golpéalo.
If you specify the part of his body to be hit, you're doing something to him, so the pronominal is needed: "Golpéale/golpéele la cabeza (a Juan) con un martillo."

As for the raining example, if you already know whom you're talking about: "Dígale/dile que llueve / que está lloviendo."
If there may be confusion with the subject, then "a él / a Juan" is needed and many people would find that the pronoun isn't: "Diga/dí a Juan que llueve", but in Mexico it is needed: "Dígale/dile a él que llueve / que está lloviendo."
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Old January 02, 2012, 07:00 PM
wafflestomp wafflestomp is offline
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Cool, makes sense.

So to clarify, in the first one the reason an IO isn't needed is because of the con there? That hammer doesn't become an indirect object because of it?
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Old January 03, 2012, 05:00 PM
jrivera jrivera is offline
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Um, this a difficult question...

In first place, you won't use the third person (usted) in "golpee a Juan", because if you are going to say someone to hit Juan in the head, I guess you have a familiar relation with this person, so you use second person (tu) - "golpea a Juan".
Maybe in Mexico they use (usted) here, anyway, but in Spain it would be sound quite weird!

I would also say that "golpéale" is also ok. With some verbs it is difficult to say, what is IO and DO, and sometimes both forms are correct...

"Martillo" is not a DO nor a IO. (is something else)
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Old January 04, 2012, 12:20 AM
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wrholt wrholt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrivera View Post
"Martillo" is not a DO nor a IO. (is something else)
"Con martillo" is a prepositional phrase that functions as an adverb modifying the verb that specifies the instrument used to perform the action of the verb. This is a type of adverb of manner.
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Old January 04, 2012, 09:21 AM
jrivera jrivera is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrholt View Post
"Con martillo" is a prepositional phrase that functions as an adverb modifying the verb that specifies the instrument used to perform the action of the verb. This is a type of adverb of manner.
Yeah, that is exactly what I wanted to say! ;DD

Good explanation!
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Old January 04, 2012, 10:55 AM
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AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
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@jrivera: The use of "usted" for such an order would sound equally misplaced in Mexico, that's why I included the imperative with "tú", but the OP seem to have wanted the sentence with "usted".

@wrholt: Thank you.
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