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La masco pero no la tragoAn idiom is an expression whose meaning is not readily apparent based on the individual words in the expression. This forum is dedicated to discussing idioms and other sayings. |
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#21
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Hmmm... So it is like saying "dale XYZ a Rafael" , le and Rafael being the indirect. Ok. Actually, I usually speak the indirect like that correctly because that is the way they speak in Spain and that's where I learned. I can't always dissect the grammar, but I can usually think it out and, like I say, I usually say it right. But I hae to admit that using lo and la as the direct object is something that I do stumble on. In fact, it is probably the only grammar that I will stumble on. The only other thing that I stumble on might be a lack of vocabulary, which I can deal with. But this exchange has been helpful to me. Dean |
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#22
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Anyway, I know there is léismo, laísmo and loísmo. But I think the case you mentioned is not actually leísmo, as it's the only instance in which the use of le for the direct object is allowed. Do check with a more reliable source, though. It's just an idea.
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"When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning of fairies." from Peter Pan by J.M.Barrie Last edited by María José; April 17, 2010 at 03:48 AM. |
#23
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Rusty and Maria Jose,
I was once told by a teacher from Castilla that, all things said and done, le is for people and lo and la are for things. But this doesn't completely fit in with the grammar that you are exlaining to me. Now, that teacher could have been fanatic or using some kind of past standard, so my mind is a clean slate at the moment. But for example, in the sentence "lo masco pero no lo trago", I could say "le" also because Rusty has told me that "le" can be the masculine direct object. But then in the sentence "la masco pero no la trago" I can't use "le" because le cannot be the feminine pronoun. But then this isn't what the Castillian teacher told me, she just said that "le" is for people and "lo" and "la" are for things; and I went along my merry way. Now I am hearing something different. Also, I have just seen in a Latin American dialogue book a sentence that went something like this: "Lo comunico con el señor X". The pronoun "lo" is certainly the object of the verb, but it refers to a person. The monkey wrench for me is that Rusty has said that "le" cannot be a feminine objective pronoun. Otherwise, I could just use "le" for men and women, and "la" and "lo" for things. Excuse me if I am splitting hairs, but I go on and on with Spanish, and I never got this down pat. Thanks for the attention, Dean |
#24
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Dean, don't worry about splitting hairs. It's important, in my opinion, to know what the rules are. I also think it's important to know and mimic how the people use the language, grammar tossed aside.
To clearly state the rules: Le is the third person singular INDIRECT object pronoun. It is used for all third persons (you (a usted), him (a él), and her (a ella), and any other masculine or feminine object that is the indirect recipient of the verb's action). Lo is the third person singular DIRECT object pronoun. It is used for masculine third persons (you (usted) and him (él), and any other masculine object). La is the third person singular DIRECT object pronoun used for feminine third persons only (you (usted) and her (ella), and any other feminine object). Some people (I'll just say it that way) incorrectly use these pronouns, and grammarians have labeled the misusages. When the direct object lo is substituted with le, this is called leísmo. When the indirect object le is substituted with lo or la, this is known as loísmo and laísmo, respectively. I recommend learning the rules, but at the same time I wouldn't want you to stick out like a sore thumb. A donde fueres, haz lo que vieres. |
#25
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The problem is I am Spanish and I still self-correct myself when speaking... this is also a stumbling block for me. I am almost sure that Rusty is right, though. You wouldn't use le for a woman if it was the direct object. You could say le for both men and women in the case of an indirect object. Direct Object LLámala (fem) LLámale/ Llámalo (masc) Indirect Oject Dale el libro a Juan (masc) Dale el libro a María (fem) Hope this helps.
__________________
"When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning of fairies." from Peter Pan by J.M.Barrie |
#26
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LLámala (fem) Llámalo (masc) (ese llámale, we don't use it) However, we use "llámele" (usted a él o ella) Is this still D.O.? Indirect Object Dale el libro a Juan (masc) Dale el libro a María (fem) Dele (usted) el libro a Juan or María. Is this still I.O.? |
#27
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Me ayuda si corrige mis errores. Gracias. |
#28
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Ah, thank you Poli.
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