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  #21  
Old February 01, 2009, 10:49 AM
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I think, you must pronounce T, tee. I know that it could to be hardly difficult for you pronounce, but anyhow you can try it.
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  #22  
Old February 01, 2009, 09:17 PM
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I know how to pronounce the T, but I'm not sure if there's any different between the T in "better" and the T in "Top" (Just an example).
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  #23  
Old February 01, 2009, 09:59 PM
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There is a large difference in the American English pronunciation of the initial t in top and the intervocal t in better.
The exact same difference can be heard when saying tap water. The initial t in tap is not pronounced at all like the intervocal t in water. The latter t is pronounced exactly like the 'clipped r' sound in Spanish. Until you hear these two words spoken together in normal conversation between speakers of American English, you will not be able to mimic the sound.
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  #24  
Old February 01, 2009, 10:20 PM
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Your choice of well is correct. Sometimes people the two t's in the word
better as dd instead of tt. Both are OK. When it's pronounced as tt it sounds more British.
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  #25  
Old February 11, 2009, 04:52 PM
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My Chilean friend explained to me once about the proper pronunciation of the r and rr in Spanish that was never explained in any book. Note: my friend is a linguist, not just an average speaker....

in Spanish....
a) rr = trilled, always
b) r in a word with a vowel on each side is a short r, not a trilled r. (such as para)
c) any situation where the r is the initial sound, it is trilled, so if you begin a sentence with "Roberto." "Roberto fue al cine," then "Roberto" begins with a trilled r.
d) an r followed by a consonant is trilled, so for instance in Roberto, there are two trilled r's, neither of which is an rr.

It finally made sense when I learned ALL of the rules and then began to listen to native speakers and realized that this is why so many r's are trilled and not just rr's. It's not just r vs. rr. Sometimes r sounds like rr. It depends on where it's located in the word, sentence or phrase. Until I knew these rules, I thought that many Spanish speakers exaggerated their r's as rr's, but now I know that they are following the rules of spoken Spanish. Also note that you have to be very careful to not trill your r's when it's inappropriate. It sounds odd. If you want to err in one direction or the other, then don't trill at all. Native speakers will understand you JUST FINE without the trilled r/rr and in normal speech it doesn't stand out much.

-ZTX
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  #26  
Old February 11, 2009, 05:57 PM
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Now you have the right rules for pronouncing /rr/, you can try practicing this children's recitation:

Erre con erre, cigarro.
Erre con erre, barril.
Rápido corren las ruedas
Del carro del ferrocarril.

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  #27  
Old February 12, 2009, 04:58 AM
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Angelica - what does your saying mean?
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  #28  
Old February 12, 2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroTX View Post
My Chilean friend explained to me once about the proper pronunciation of the r and rr in Spanish that was never explained in any book. Note: my friend is a linguist, not just an average speaker....

in Spanish....
a) rr = trilled, always
b) r in a word with a vowel on each side is a short r, not a trilled r. (such as para)
c) any situation where the r is the initial sound, it is trilled, so if you begin a sentence with "Roberto." "Roberto fue al cine," then "Roberto" begins with a trilled r.
d) an r followed by a consonant is trilled, so for instance in Roberto, there are two trilled r's, neither of which is an rr.

It finally made sense when I learned ALL of the rules and then began to listen to native speakers and realized that this is why so many r's are trilled and not just rr's. It's not just r vs. rr. Sometimes r sounds like rr. It depends on where it's located in the word, sentence or phrase. Until I knew these rules, I thought that many Spanish speakers exaggerated their r's as rr's, but now I know that they are following the rules of spoken Spanish. Also note that you have to be very careful to not trill your r's when it's inappropriate. It sounds odd. If you want to err in one direction or the other, then don't trill at all. Native speakers will understand you JUST FINE without the trilled r/rr and in normal speech it doesn't stand out much.

-ZTX
I also like to help my Americans friends by leading them to Irish people.

You see, if an American wants to be more proficient at the R "problem", just resort to try to imitate and Irish person, when they say "I am from Ireland" or just the common "me friend" and you'll be on your way to improve your Spanish also. :-)

Hernan.
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  #29  
Old February 12, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Angelica - what does your saying mean?
Erre con erre, cigarro.
Erre con erre, barril.
Rápido corren las ruedas
Del carro del ferrocarril.

R with R cigarette
R with R barrel
Quickly run the wheels
of the train car.

It's just a rhyme/tongue twister to practice rolling your Rs.
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  #30  
Old February 12, 2009, 09:09 AM
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Thank you, Tomisimo!

Young children learn it in kindergarten, along with songs, tales, etc... children games are very useful when you're learning a foreign language, because in the end they also are made to build a relationship between the child and its language.
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