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  #1  
Old August 22, 2009, 01:04 PM
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Japanese

お は よ う ご ざ い ま す Buenos Días (gozaimasu le agrega formalidad)
o ha yo u go za i ma su

I'm learning Japanese (I started recently) and I would like to know if there is someone learning it too or thinking about starting.

Little by little I'll put some information for the ones that are starting:

There are 3 alphabets:

Hiragana: It's value is only phonetic, as our alphabet. It has 46 characters and is the one used for Japanese words, particles, verbs, etc. (all that I'm writing in Japanese here is in Hiragana)

http://www.e.kth.se/~e96_dsa/www/nihongo/hiragana.gif

Katakana: It's value is only phonetic, as our alphabet. It has the same 46 characters as Hiragana, but with different writing. It is used for foreign words like: コンピュタ- konpyuta - computer

http://www.e.kth.se/~e96_dsa/www/nihongo/katakana.gif

Kanji: Chinese characters used only for expressing concepts (in Chinese they can be use phonetically). There are more than 10.000 kanjis, but the official ones you have to know to understand almost all the language and that are taught at schools are nearly 2000.

Some words: (I will only remark when i'm using katakana, if not, I'm using hiragana. Kanji never)

こ ん に ち は Buenas Tardes
ko n ni chi wa

こ ん ば ん は Buenas Noches
ko n ba n wa

お や す み な さ い Buenas Noches (que duermas bien)
o ya su mi na sa i - Nasai agrega formalidad.

さ よ う な ら Adios (formal)
sa yo u na ra

じゃ ね Chau
ja ne

バ イ バ イ Chau (esta en katakana, es una palabra extranjera)
ba i ba i


The phonetic is similar to Spanish, next time I will tell you.

Please correct my english errors!

Last edited by ookami; August 23, 2009 at 10:55 PM.
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  #2  
Old August 22, 2009, 01:14 PM
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seems more complicated than Chinese....
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  #3  
Old August 22, 2009, 01:19 PM
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ookami ookami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchen View Post
seems more complicated than Chinese....
From what i know, chinese is more complicated because it has more kanjis and the fonetical is difficult.
It only seems, but it's like other languages. The only difficult thing is to memorice 2000 kanjis and know how to write them correctly. What's left is like in any language once you have learn the Kanas (Hiragana and Katakana).
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Old August 22, 2009, 02:14 PM
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EmpanadaRica EmpanadaRica is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
お は よ う ご ざ い ま す Buenos Días (gozaimasu le agrega formalidad)
o ha yo u go za i ma su

I'm learning Japanese (I started recently) and I would like to know if there is someone learning it too or thinking about starting.
It' s a language I would like to learn down the line, but there are a few others waiting first. I have a Brazilian acquaintance/friend who is studying Japanese too. I have only once ever watched a tv language course in Japanese and all I remember is (phonetic): ' Hajimemhashito' (How are you?), ' Itadakimasu' (enjoy your meal) and 'moshi moshi' (hello).

It sounds very interesting though! Thanks for sharing!!
3 alphabets... !! yikes..

Quote:
Little by little I'll put some information for the ones that are starting:

There are 3 alphabets:

Hiragana: It's value is only phonetic, as our alphabet. It has 46 characters and is the one used for Japanese words, particles, verbs, etc. (all that I'm writing in Japanese here is in Hiragana)

http://www.e.kth.se/~e96_dsa/www/nihongo/hiragana.gif

Katakana: It's value is only phonetic, as our alphabet. It has the same 46 characters than as Hirgana, but with different writing. It is used for foreign words like: コンピュタ- konpyuta - computer

http://www.e.kth.se/~e96_dsa/www/nihongo/katakana.gif

Kanji: Chinese characters used only for expressing concepts (in Chinese they can be use phonetically). There are more than 10.000 kanjis, but the official ones you have to know to understand almost all the language and that are teached taught at schools are nearly/ almost 2000.

Some words: (I will only remark when I'm using katakana, if not, I'm using hiragana. Kanji never)

こ ん に ち わ Buenas Tardes
ko n ni chi wa

こ ん ば ん わ Buenas Noches
ko n ba n wa

お や す み な さ い Buenas Noches (que duermas bien)
o ya su mi na sa i - Nasai agrega formalidad.

さ よ う な ら Adios (formal)
sa yo u na ra

じゃ ね Chau
ja ne

バ イ バ イ Chau (esta en katakana, es una palabra extranjera)
ba i ba i


The phonetic is similar to Spanish, next time I will tell you (more).

Please correct my English errors (/errors in English)!
As per your request a few minor corrections, not many.
I believe phonetic is spelled with a 'ph' not an 'f' but maybe an English native speaker can comment on that.

Thanx for sharing, it's very interesting!!
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  #5  
Old August 22, 2009, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
From what i know, chinese is more complicated because it has more kanjis and the fonetical is difficult.
It only seems, but it's like other languages. The only difficult thing is to memorice 2000 kanjis and know how to write them correctly. What's left is like in any language once you have learn the Kanas (Hiragana and Katakana).

Hmm, but I'm Chinese, so that's probably why Japanese seems hard. I'm more used to Chinese

the Chinese language doesn't have an alphabet...





Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post
It' s a language I would like to learn down the line, but there are a few others waiting first. I have a Brazilian acquaintance/friend who is studying Japanese too. I have only once ever watched a tv language course in Japanese and all I remember is (phonetic): ' Hajimemhashito' (How are you?), ' Itadakimasu' (enjoy your meal) and 'moshi moshi' (hello).

It sounds very interesting though! Thanks for sharing!!
3 alphabets... !! yikes..



As per your request a few minor corrections, not many.
I believe phonetic is spelled with a 'ph' not an 'f' but maybe an English native speaker can comment on that.

Thanx for sharing, it's very interesting!!

yeah, phonetic is spelled with 'ph'

Last edited by Jessica; August 22, 2009 at 03:12 PM. Reason: added another quote
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  #6  
Old August 22, 2009, 10:54 PM
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Thanks both and please continue correcting me if you can It's the only way i can improve.
Don't tell me Empanada that it isn't a lovely language to hear!

Some more common expressions:

ど う も あ り が と う ご ざ い ま す Muchas Gracias (de una manera formal)
do u mo a ri ga to u go za i ma su

ど う い た し ま し て De nada
do u i ta shi ma shi te

ご め ん な さ い Perdón (algo formal por el 'nasai')
go me n na sa i

す み ま せ ん Disculpe (formal)
su mi ma se n

い た だ き ま す *Saludos para antes de empezar a comer.
i ta da ki ma su

ご ち そ う さ ま で し た Gracias por la comida. (el deshita agrega formalidad)
go chi so u sa ma de shi ta

いっ て き ま す *Saludos para irse de un lugar, sería como: "¡Me voy!"
i t te ki ma su

いっ て い ら しゃ い *en respuesta al anterior, como: "¡Que te vaya bien!"
i t te i ra sha i

た だ い ま *Saludo cuando se llega a un lugar, como: "Ya llegue"
ta da i ma

お か え り な さ い *en respuesta al anterior, como: "Bienvenido"
o ka e ri na sa i

Nexy time: phonetic and first dialogue.

Last edited by ookami; August 22, 2009 at 11:01 PM.
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  #7  
Old August 23, 2009, 01:13 AM
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EmpanadaRica EmpanadaRica is offline
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Thanx jchen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
Thanks both and please continue correcting me if you can It's the only way I can improve.
Don't tell me Empanada that it isn't a lovely language to hear!
Ok I will if it' s worth a correction. Sofar you're doing fine.
Yes it sounds lovely, definitely.. I agree. Very sweet in fact. But it'd be hard work learning it.
In fact before this I would love to learn either some more Greek or Turkish (or both) because they both sound very lovely as well - though Turkish isn't the easierst of languages either.

What made you decide to start learning Japanese by the way?

Quote:
Some more common expressions:

ど う も あ り が と う ご ざ い ま す Muchas Gracias (de una manera formal)
do u mo a ri ga to u go za i ma su
So, noticeably 'masu' is often said at the end of a word. Do you know what it means, or is it a word that indicates politeness or a formal 'u' / 'usted' maybe?

Quote:
ど う い た し ま し て De nada
do u i ta shi ma shi te
Twice 'shi' , after konnitchiwa (good night). The word 'i ta' also seems to
reappear in these constructions. Can you tell us some more what 'i ta' and 'chi' mean if you can translate those characters to a corresponding word or concept?

Quote:
い た だ き ま す *Saludos para antes de empezar a comer.
i ta da ki ma su
Hey so I remembered it correctly It's been a few years but it sounded so charming I remembered it.

Quote:
いっ て き ま す *Saludos para irse de un lugar, sería como: "¡Me voy!"
i t te ki ma su
So the only big difference between thwese two is 't' instead of 'ta' and 'da' instead of 'te' ? So I suppose those words then signify the actual action that is taking place (Enjoy the meal, versus, I am going?). Or is that reasoning too simple and should other things be taken into consideration as well?

Quote:
いっ て い ら しゃ い *en respuesta al anterior, como: "¡Que te vaya bien!"
i t te i ra sha i

た だ い ま *Saludo cuando se llega a un lugar, como: "Ya llegue"
ta da i ma
So 't te' is about going I assume (twice in two constructions about going) and 'ta da' ?
Are te and ta opposite (as in 'away' and 'to' movements?).
Is there assimilation in Japanese? I.e. if you have 'da', 'te' becomes 'ta' as well, or is this not done?

Quote:
Nexy time: phonetic and first dialogue.
Can I ask you, what does your nickname mean? I assume it is Japanese too?
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Last edited by EmpanadaRica; August 23, 2009 at 01:16 AM.
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  #8  
Old August 23, 2009, 03:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EmpanadaRica View Post

What made you decide to start learning Japanese by the way?

I love their culture since childhood. And i like a lot their anime and literature. Music too.

So, noticeably 'masu' is often said at the end of a word. Do you know what it means, or is it a word that indicates politeness or a formal 'u' / 'usted' maybe?

It indicates politeness. You almost always finish your verbs with "masu", if not, is a too familiar conversation or badmanner. nomimasu - beber - drink
It has other meanings but at this moment is to difficult to explain.

Twice 'shi' , after konnitchiwa (good night). The word 'i ta' also seems to
reappear in these constructions. Can you tell us some more what 'i ta' and 'chi' mean if you can translate those characters to a corresponding word or concept?

konnichiwa is "Good Afternoon"

It's not a too logical language as others. Sentences aren't exact and depend alot of context. It's imposible to translate literary because you have always many options.
You can just find (this is an invented word) mikitse and mikitso and mikitsa and "kit" is nothing than 3 more letters. 'ita' is in alot of words that haven't any conection.


So the only big difference between thwese two is 't' instead of 'ta' and 'da' instead of 'te' ? So I suppose those words then signify the actual action that is taking place (Enjoy the meal, versus, I am going?). Or is that reasoning too simple and should other things be taken into consideration as well?

In this case maybe you can analice "tadaima" ('da' means something, very difficult to explain for me without examples, 'ima' means ahora-now) but you can't do that in all the words or at least it isn't to helpfull while learning. In spanish: carpeta and escopeta have "peta" and that doesn't mean anything especial. It's almost the same here.


So 't te' is about going I assume (twice in two constructions about going) and 'ta da' ?
Are te and ta opposite (as in 'away' and 'to' movements?).
Is there assimilation in Japanese? I.e. if you have 'da', 'te' becomes 'ta' as well, or is this not done?

No, they aren't opposite and. You have assimilation in all languages i think, but japanese is a little bit different to analice. You need to advanced a little more to see it. Maybe after I put here some dialogues.

That little tsu: "っ" means that you make like a pause when saying the next letter: "i..ttekimasu" I think you need to listen to understand correctly.
Examples:

い っ て き ま す
i t te ki ma su

ざ っ し (revista)
za s shi

Just phonetic.

I have tried french, portuguese and germán and you can understand almost all (maybe not to clear) at the beggining. But with Japanese you have to advanced with one eye for some time.
And i still have one eye close.

Can I ask you, what does your nickname mean? I assume it is Japanese too?

kami es dios
kami es cabello
kami es pelo
ookami es lobo -> wolf
Thanks for your participation. Sorry if I can't be of much help on those questions.
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  #9  
Old August 23, 2009, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
Thanks both and please continue correcting me if you can It's the only way i can improve.
Don't tell me Empanada that it isn't a lovely language to hear!

Some more common expressions:

ど う も あ り が と う ご ざ い ま す Muchas Gracias (de una manera formal)
do u mo a ri ga to u go za i ma su

ど う い た し ま し て De nada
do u i ta shi ma shi te

ご め ん な さ い Perdón (algo formal por el 'nasai')
go me n na sa i

す み ま せ ん Disculpe (formal)
su mi ma se n

い た だ き ま す *Saludos para antes de empezar a comer.
i ta da ki ma su

ご ち そ う さ ま で し た Gracias por la comida. (el deshita agrega formalidad)
go chi so u sa ma de shi ta

いっ て き ま す *Saludos para irse de un lugar, sería como: "¡Me voy!"
i t te ki ma su

いっ て い ら しゃ い *en respuesta al anterior, como: "¡Que te vaya bien!"
i t te i ra sha i

た だ い ま *Saludo cuando se llega a un lugar, como: "Ya llegue"
ta da i ma

お か え り な さ い *en respuesta al anterior, como: "Bienvenido"
o ka e ri na sa i

Nexy time: phonetic and first dialogue.

I forgot - does Japanese have tones? Chinese has tones. 4 of them, well in Mandarin
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Old August 23, 2009, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchen View Post
I forgot - does Japanese have tones? Chinese has tones. 4 of them, well in Mandarin
ko n ba n wa mi na sa n.
I studied Japanese for almost a year at a local school about 10 years ago, but I have now forgotten most of it.
Japanese is not a tonal language. (It is a bit like French in that respect.) The voice does not rise and fall in pitch like in other languages.
They have yet another "alphabet" called romaji, which is a European transliteration of the 46 sounds of two kana systems. It is used as a means of teaching communicating with users of the latin or roman alphabet. The most popular version is called he bo n, named after its inventor (Hepburn)

The alphabets do not relate to individual letters, but to just 46 permissible syllables. Apart from the vowels (aieou) and n, all the other symbols of this so-called syllabary are a consonant+vowel combination. Romanji is a phonetic system pronounced like Italian.
Because the language has so few sounds, it is rich in ambiguity and puns.


The Kanji characters are the same as Chinese, of which a well educated Japanese would know and use about 2000. They are not phonetic. Each character will normally have 2 entirely different meanings, which adds to the ambiguity. The most useful kana for us is Katakana (the spikey alphabet), which is usually is close to an English word.
Like in Spanish V and B sound the same. L sounds like an R, which leads to words such as "te re bi" for televi(sion)

The writing systems are the hardest part of this language, as grammar is relatively simple. Fascinating!
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