Translating a simple paragraph (Exercise 5-13)

[laepelba]

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the section on the imperfect tense asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were prepositions, etc. Unfortunately I DID make a couple of really "DOH!" mistakes....

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.

Original English Paragraph	My First Attempt at Translation	The "Corrected" Translation
Frank was a methodical man. Each spring he would travel to Spain on a nonstop flight to Madrid. At the Chicago airport, he would show his passport, check his luggage, and rest at the gate. He would get on the plane and ask the flight attendant for a pillow. In his pocket, he would carry a list of gifts for his family and would think of the days shopping at the Spanish department stores. He would fall asleep and when he arrived at the airport in Madrid, he would go to the luggage terminal, pick up his suitcase, and go through customs. Then he would go to his hotel. But last year was different. The plane made a stop in New York, and Frank decided to visit the city. Frank missed the flight to Madrid, and he determined to start a new tradition: to spend his vacation in the United States.	Frank era un hombre metódico. Cada primavera, viajaba a España en un vuelo directo a Madrid. En el aeropuerto en Chicago, mostraba su pasaporte, facturaba su equipaje, y se descansaba a la puerta de embarque. Embarcaba en el avión y le pedía el asistente de viaje para una almohada. En su bosillo, llevaba una lista de regalos para su familia y pensaba de los días de comprar a las tiendas españolas por departamentos. Se dormía y cuando llegó al aeropuerto en Madrid, iba a la terminal de equipaje, recogía su equipaje, y pasaba por la aduana. Entonces, iba al hotel. Pero, el año pasado fue diferente. El avión hizo una parada en Nueva York, y Frank decidió a visitar la ciudad. Frank se perdió el vuelo a Madrid, ya determinó a empezar una tradición nueva: a pasar sus vacaciones en los Estados Unidos.	Frank era un hombre metódico. Cada primavera, viajaba a España en un vuelo directo a Madrid. En el aeropuerto (1) en de Chicago, (2) mostraba presentaba su pasaporte, facturaba su (3) equipaje maleta, y (4) se descansaba (5) a en la puerta de embarque. (6) Embarcaba en el Subía a la cabina del avión y le pedía (7) el asistente de viaje para una almohada una almohada al asistente de viaje. En (8) su el bosillo, llevaba (9) una la lista de regalos para su familia y pensaba de en los días de comprar a compras en (10) las tiendas españolas por departamentos los almacenes españoles. Se dormía y cuando (11) llegó llegaba al aeropuerto (1) en de Madrid, iba a la terminal de equipaje, recogía su (3) equipaje maleta, y pasaba por la aduana. (12) Entonces Después, iba (8) al a su hotel. Pero, el año pasado fue diferente. El avión hizo una (13) parada escala en Nueva York, y Frank decidió (17) a visitar la ciudad. Frank (14) se perdió el vuelo a Madrid, ya determinó (15) a empezar iniciar una (16) tradición nueva nueva tradición: (17) a pasar sus vacaciones en los Estados Unidos.

My questions are as follows:
(1) In two places here. Would someone explain to me the difference between "en" and "de" in this context?
(2) Are "presentar" and "mostrar" interchangeable here?
(3) In two places here. Are "maleta" and "equipaje" interchangeable here? For some reason, I have a feeling that they're not. If not, what is the difference?
(4) So, descansar can never be used with the pronoun except when it means to confide or to rely?
(5) Why "en" and not "a"?
(6) What is the difference between "Embarcaba en el..." and "Subía a la cabina del..."?
(7) I do NOT understand the rearrangement of phrases here. Please walk me through WHY it is like this....
(8) Two places here. Is this another situation where the definite article is used because it's obvious WHOSE pocket/hotel it is?
(9) Is this an error on the part of the book? The original says "a list" not "the list"...
(10) I used "las tiendas por departamentos" because I found it in a dictionary (probably Tomisimo's dictionary). So obviously I used the wrong word for department store (or did I?) If my original phrasing here were (YES) correct, where would "españoles" best be placed? (a) españoles tiendas por departamentos, (b) las tiendas por departamentos españoles, or (c) las tiendas españolas por departaments. I used (c), but I am really not at all sure. I've tried to keep in mind that other thread where Angelica gave the examples with the wool ladies and the straw children....
(11) Why imperfect instead of preterit? It seems to me that the arrival happened at a particular point in time.
(12) Are "entonces" and "después" interchangeable here?
(13) Are "parada" and "escala" interchangeable here?
(14) Why "perder" and not "perderse"?
(15) Are "empezar" and "iniciar" equivalent here?
(16)
(17) Why no "a" in either of these two places?

THANK YOU!!!!!!

[poli]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Continuing to work through a book of basic Spanish grammar exercises, in an attempt to fill in some of the "holes" in the learning that I've done so far. It has been (I believe) very fruitful so far.

One of the exercises in the section on the imperfect tense asks me to translate a simple paragraph from English to Spanish. I did okay for the most part - only needed to look up a small handful of words, and the majority of the errors I made (according to their "answer" in the back of the book) were prepositions, etc. Unfortunately I DID make a couple of really "DOH!" mistakes....

I want to ask some questions, though. So I'm going to include here (1) the original English paragraph, (2) my original translation, and (3) the "corrected" translation. I will indicate my questions at the bottom of this post.



My questions are as follows:
(1) In two places here. Would someone explain to me the difference between "en" and "de" in this context?El aeropuerto de Madrid means Madrid's airport. El aeropuerto en Madrid means the airport in Madrid which sounds a little off and it's a slightly less accurate thing to say, because I believe Barajas is a separate municipality.
(2) Are "presentar" and "mostrar" interchangeable here? They are somewhat interchangable, but mostrar is better. It means show and presentar means introduce or present.
(3) In two places here. Are "maleta" and "equipaje" interchangeable here? For some reason, I have a feeling that they're not. If not, what is the difference?Maleta means suitcase and equipage means luggage
(4) So, descansar can never be used with the pronoun except when it means to confide or to rely?To my knowledge descansar never means to confide. Descansar means to rest. I don't think descansarse is commonly used to mean rely---maybe in Mexico.
(5) Why "en" and not "a"?en is right but I can't tell you why
(6) What is the difference between "Embarcaba en el..." and "Subía a la cabina del..."?I think you can use both, but Embarcar usually means to enter a ship, and has seems a little maritime.I think the most common term is abordar el avión.
(7) I do NOT understand the rearrangement of phrases here. Please walk me through WHY it is like this....number 7 correction is incorrect. Pedir el
asistente (o azafata) PARA una almohada is wrong. Para should be left out, because pedir means ask for. Your arrangement of words were OK and didn't really need rearrangement
(8) Two places here. Is this another situation where the definite article is used because it's obvious WHOSE pocket/hotel it is?
(9) Is this an error on the part of the book? The original says "a list" not "the list"...I don't think it's an error. It translates directly( In his pocket he carried a list---not the list.)
(10) I used "las tiendas por departamentos" because I found it in a dictionary (probably Tomisimo's dictionary). So obviously I used the wrong word for department store (or did I?)The best word for department store is grandes almacenes. Almacenes is not big enough to decribe a Macy's or Corte Inglés. If my original phrasing here were (YES) correct, where would "españoles" best be placed? (a) españoles tiendas por departamentos no, (b) las tiendas por departamentos españoles,sí or (c) las tiendas españolas por departaments no. I used (c), but I am really not at all sure. I've tried to keep in mind that other thread where Angelica gave the examples with the wool ladies and the straw children....
(11) Why imperfect instead of preterit? It seems to me that the arrival happened at a particular point in time.I think preterit's OK here.
(12) Are "entonces" and "después" interchangeable here?Después sounds better to me here
(13) Are "parada" and "escala" interchangeable here?
(14) Why "perder" and not "perderse"?I learned here in the forum that the term for missing a flight of train
is perder --not perderse
(15) Are "empezar" and "iniciar" equivalent here?Ditto what I wrote about #12
(16)
(17) Why no "a" in either of these two places?

THANK YOU!!!!!!

---------------

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Originally Posted by laepelba

Frank era un hombre metódico. Cada primavera, viajaba a España en un vuelo directo a Madrid. En el aeropuerto (1) en de Chicago, (2) mostraba presentaba su pasaporte, facturaba su (3) equipaje maleta, y (4) se descansaba (5) a en la puerta de embarque. (6) Embarcaba en el Subía a la cabina del avión y le pedía (7) el asistente de viaje para una almohada una almohada al asistente de viaje. En (8) su el bosillo, llevaba (9) una la lista de regalos para su familia y pensaba de en los días de comprar a compras en (10) las tiendas españolas por departamentos los almacenes españoles. Se dormía y cuando (11) llegó llegaba al aeropuerto (1) en de Madrid, iba a la terminal de equipaje, recogía su (3) equipaje maleta, y pasaba por la aduana. (12) Entonces Después, iba (8) al a su hotel. Pero, el año pasado fue diferente. El avión hizo una (13) parada escala en Nueva York, y Frank decidió (17) a visitar la ciudad. Frank (14) se perdió el vuelo a Madrid, ya determinó (15) a empezar iniciar una (16) tradición nueva nueva tradición: (17) a pasar sus vacaciones en los Estados Unidos.

(1) In two places here. Would someone explain to me the difference between "en" and "de" in this context?
-- Hmmm... The airport is "the property" of the city, not just a spot in it.

(2) Are "presentar" and "mostrar" interchangeable here?
-- Yes.

(3) In two places here. Are "maleta" and "equipaje" interchangeable here? For some reason, I have a feeling that they're not. If not, what is the difference?
-- "Maleta" is a single suitcase. "Equipaje" is the whole set of suitcases and pieces of luggage.
In the second case, repetition of "equipaje" is ugly.

(4) So, descansar can never be used with the pronoun except when it means to confide or to rely?
-- I have never seen "descansar" in a pronominal way. If you ask me, "descansarse" does not exist.

(5) Why "en" and not "a"?
-- I don't know! It's just like that to me.
"A la puerta" would mean that someone is heading towards the door, not staying there...

(6) What is the difference between "Embarcaba en el..." and "Subía a la cabina del..."?
-- I think "embarcar" is used mainly by airline personnel.
In any case, Mexicans use mostly "subir a un avión".
Your sentence could have been simply "Subía al avión".

(7) I do NOT understand the rearrangement of phrases here. Please walk me through WHY it is like this....
-- "To ask for" is NEVER translated as "pedir para"/"pedir por" (I think we have already been through this).
Your sentence "pedía el asistente de viaje para una almohada" would mean that he asked to have the flight assistant to use him/her as a pillow.
Btw: "pedirle algo a alguien" => "pedirle una almohada al sobrecargo"
"Asistente de viaje" is too long and not widely used (not around here anyway): You can say "la sobrecargo/el sobrecargo" (some time ago one could also say "aeromoza"/"aeromozo", but now it's considered pejorative).

(8) Two places here. Is this another situation where the definite article is used because it's obvious WHOSE pocket/hotel it is?
-- Right.

(9) Is this an error on the part of the book? The original says "a list" not "the list"...
-- No, I don't think that's an error.
"A" in English is often used for "definite" situations in Spanish.
I think that "la lista" has a set of requested presents.
"Una lista" would mean to me that he has "guessed" things he could buy for his family.
But that's what you're solving exercises for: to learn the feeling for the language.

(10) I used "las tiendas por departamentos" because I found it in a dictionary (probably Tomisimo's dictionary). So obviously I used the wrong word for department store (or did I?) If my original phrasing here were (YES) correct, where would "españolas" best be placed? (a) españolas tiendas por departamentos, (b) las tiendas por departamentos españolas, or (c) las tiendas españolas por departamentos. I used (c), but I am really not at all sure. I've tried to keep in mind that other thread where Angelica gave the examples with the wool ladies and the straw children....
-- I don't know if someone uses "tienda por departamentos" but: "tienda de departamentos" = "tiendas departamentales" = "almacenes"
The "closest relative" to your main word must not be far away from it: "tiendas españolas de departamentos" separates "tiendas de departamentos" and sentence becomes awkward. In this kind of construction, the main word is the noun and you have to see what complement must be closer to it so the meaning is clearer.

(11) Why imperfect instead of preterit? It seems to me that the arrival happened at a particular point in time.
-- Your whole paragraph is a story about the things Frank used to do.

(12) Are "entonces" and "después" interchangeable here?
-- Not exactly.
"Entonces" is used when there is a "closer linked" chain of events. "Después" marks a different activity. If he had still been doing things at the airport, you could have used "entonces".

(13) Are "parada" and "escala" interchangeable here?
-- I'm not sure.
I use "parada" more for a bus or a car and "escala" as the standard word for airplanes, maybe for boats.

(14) Why "perder" and not "perderse"?
-- In this context:
"Perderse" is used for something you would have enjoyed.
- Me perdí el partido por estar trabajando.
I had been working, so I missed the game.
- Te perdiste el escándalo que hizo la esposa del jefe.
You missed the scandal that the boss' wife made.
"Perder" means to miss a bus, a plane, etc.

(15) Are "empezar" and "iniciar" equivalent here?
-- Yes: "determinó iniciar" = "determinó empezar"
Btw, not "ya determinó", but "y determinó".

(16)
-- Well, English doesn't always respect the strict rule about keeping adjectives/adverbs before the noun/verb.
So again, that's what you write exercises for.


(17) Why no "a" in either of these two places?
-- Aha! We've also been through this before.
"Decidir" doesn't use preposition "a".
And neither does "determinar".


Poli beat me to do this, but more points of view won't harm.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

-- Well, English doesn't always respect the strict rule about keeping adjectives/adverbs before the noun/verb.

This baffles me - could you explain? Or just tell me to shut up because it's off-topic.

[laepelba]

Originally Posted by Perikles

This baffles me - could you explain? Or just tell me to shut up because it's off-topic.

No - don't tell him to "shut up", because I am also interested in the answer to that same question.

I am in the middle of several things right now, but will be back later today to spend some time going through the WONDERFUL answers that you two have given! Thanks, Poli & Malila!!

[Ambarina]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

(1) In two places here. Would someone explain to me the difference between "en" and "de" in this context?
-- Hmmm... The airport is "the property" of the city, not just a spot in it.
Agree with Malila. The airport "belongs" to the city so it would always be "de" e.g. el aeropuerto de Caracas, Madrid, Chicago.

(2) Are "presentar" and "mostrar" interchangeable here?
-- Yes.
Agree

(3) In two places here. Are "maleta" and "equipaje" interchangeable here? For some reason, I have a feeling that they're not. If not, what is the difference?
-- "Maleta" is a single suitcase. "Equipaje" is the whole set of suitcases and pieces of luggage.
In the second case, repetition of "equipaje" is ugly.

I think it would be interchangeable here if it weren't for repetition. You don`t know what he's carrying as the English says "luggage" which could be anything.

(4) So, descansar can never be used with the pronoun except when it means to confide or to rely?
-- I have never seen "descansar" in a pronominal way. If you ask me, "descansarse" does not exist.
Agree

(5) Why "en" and not "a"?
-- I don't know! It's just like that to me.
"A la puerta" would mean that someone is heading towards the door, not staying there...

Agree. Use of "a" implies movement. "en" is static. Think of RIP (Rest in Peace) - DEP (Descanse En Paz)

(6) What is the difference between "Embarcaba en el..." and "Subía a la cabina del..."?
-- I think "embarcar" is used mainly by airline personnel.
In any case, Mexicans use mostly "subir a un avión".
Your sentence could have been simply "Subía al avión".

I think this is a question of use/formality. They talk of "Boarding Gates" at airports "Puertas de Embarque" but we get on a plane and likewise in Spanish "subirse al avion". We could say "Board the plane" or "embarcar" but it's kind of too formal in this case, I guess.

(7) I do NOT understand the rearrangement of phrases here. Please walk me through WHY it is like this....
-- "To ask for" is NEVER translated as "pedir para"/"pedir por" (I think we have already been through this).
Your sentence "pedía el asistente de viaje para una almohada" would mean that he asked to have the flight assistant to use him/her as a pillow.
Btw: "pedirle algo a alguien" => "pedirle una almohada al sobrecargo"
"Asistente de viaje" is too long and not widely used (not around here anyway): You can say "la sobrecargo/el sobrecargo" (some time ago one could also say "aeromoza"/"aeromozo", but now it's considered pejorative).

Agree. Though we called them "azafatas". Now they're "auxiliares de vuelo".

(8) Two places here. Is this another situation where the definite article is used because it's obvious WHOSE pocket/hotel it is?
-- Right.

(9) Is this an error on the part of the book? The original says "a list" not "the list"...
-- No, I don't think that's an error.
"A" in English is often used for "definite" situations in Spanish.
I think that "la lista" has a set of requested presents.
"Una lista" would mean to me that he has "guessed" things he could buy for his family.
But that's what you're solving exercises for: to learn the feeling for the language.

(10) I used "las tiendas por departamentos" because I found it in a dictionary (probably Tomisimo's dictionary). So obviously I used the wrong word for department store (or did I?) If my original phrasing here were (YES) correct, where would "españolas" best be placed? (a) españolas tiendas por departamentos, (b) las tiendas por departamentos españolas, or (c) las tiendas españolas por departamentos. I used (c), but I am really not at all sure. I've tried to keep in mind that other thread where Angelica gave the examples with the wool ladies and the straw children....
-- I don't know if someone uses "tienda por departamentos" but: "tienda de departamentos" = "tiendas departamentales" = "almacenes"
The "closest relative" to your main word must not be far away from it: "tiendas españolas de departamentos" separates "tiendas de departamentos" and sentence becomes awkward. In this kind of construction, the main word is the noun and you have to see what complement must be closer to it so the meaning is clearer.

Department store = grandes almacenes. Almacén can be any kind of storage area or warehouse so I don't agree with what the book says when it only uses "almacenes"
Grandes almacenes españoles.

(11) Why imperfect instead of preterit? It seems to me that the arrival happened at a particular point in time.
-- Your whole paragraph is a story about the things Frank used to do.
Agree

(12) Are "entonces" and "después" interchangeable here?
-- Not exactly.
"Entonces" is used when there is a "closer linked" chain of events. "Después" marks a different activity. If he had still been doing things at the airport, you could have used "entonces".

I think they're interchangeable here as the logical thing to do after going through customs would be to go to his hotel.

(13) Are "parada" and "escala" interchangeable here?
-- I'm not sure.
I use "parada" more for a bus or a car and "escala" as the standard word for airplanes, maybe for boats.

Like Malila said, "escala" is definitely used for planes and boats. "Mi vuelo a Hong Kong hace escala en París". El crucero hace escala en Venecia y Sicilia".

(14) Why "perder" and not "perderse"?
-- In this context:
"Perderse" is used for something you would have enjoyed.
- Me perdí el partido por estar trabajando.
I had been working, so I missed the game.
- Te perdiste el escándalo que hizo la esposa del jefe.
You missed the scandal that the boss' wife made.
"Perder" means to miss a bus, a plane, etc.
Agree

(15) Are "empezar" and "iniciar" equivalent here?
-- Yes: "determinó iniciar" = "determinó empezar"
Btw, not "ya determinó", but "y determinó".
Agree
(16)
-- Well, English doesn't always respect the strict rule about keeping adjectives/adverbs before the noun/verb.
So again, that's what you write exercises for.

I guess you can say "He crept up on him slowly" and "He slowly crept up on him" but I can't think of an instance where the adjective doesn't go before the noun.

(17) Why no "a" in either of these two places?
-- Aha! We've also been through this before.
"Decidir" doesn't use preposition "a".
And neither does "determinar".
Agree
But...Estar decidido a hacer algo.

Poli beat me to do this, but more points of view won't harm.

Another point of view for you.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

Can I argue in my defence that I was tired last night?


@Perikles: Ambarina understands me.
I must admit I'm wrong about the adjective thing, but my old teachers always made me change the place of adverbs only to find that they are not always put before the verb. (I may still not place them always at the right place, but I keep trying).

(17) Why no "a" in either of these two places?
-- Aha! We've also been through this before.
"Decidir" doesn't use preposition "a".
And neither does "determinar".
Agree
But...Estar decidido a hacer algo.

Right! And there is also "decidirse a hacer algo".

[Ambarina]

Perikles may have problems getting on line tonight. There were huge storms today (almost tropical by the looks of them on the news) and there have been major power cuts on the islands.
The Canary Islands have had some bad storms this winter.
Hope everything's OK.

[irmamar]

I've read that Tenerife has had a power cut.

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

Can I argue in my defence that I was tired last night? ".

Oh all right.

Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar

I must admit I'm wrong about the adjective thing, but my old teachers always made me change the place of adverbs only to find that they are not always put before the verb.

That's fine - I spent some time searching for rogue adjectives, thinking I was missing something. As for adverbs, you can place them everywhere, usually correctly , unless they split an infinitive .... (cue for long discussion).

Originally Posted by Ambarina

Perikles may have problems getting on line tonight. There were huge storms today (almost tropical by the looks of them on the news) and there have been major power cuts on the islands.
The Canary Islands have had some bad storms this winter.
Hope everything's OK.

Thanks for the concern, most of the island has been without electricity today, and our village must be one of the last ones to be restored, about half an hour ago. It is incredible that the internet actually works, with the fragile infrastructure here.

We can see a long stretch of coast, about 6 kms away, from our height of 900 metres altitude, and can see the devastation with lots of beaches ruined with all the sand washed into the sea. Very unusual storms.