#11  
Old April 28, 2008, 09:36 AM
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Alfonso
This is the way of learning es correcto pero parece muy filosófico-- igual a «eso es el modo de aprender». Si substutuyeof learning para to learn
su inglés va parecer mas natural.
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  #12  
Old April 28, 2008, 10:10 AM
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to urge is not the same as urgir

to urge someone to do something
insistir que alguien haga algo
presionar a alguien a hacer algo
instar a uno a hacer algo

urgir
to be urgent
to be needed urgently
to be pressing

Me urge partir
I need need to leave immediately

Urge el dinero
We need money urgently



So... coming back to the Daily Word...

Me urge hacer x.
I need to do x right away
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  #13  
Old April 28, 2008, 10:16 AM
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No sirve and no funciona are both very common ways to say it's broken or it doesn't work in Mexico. Estropear/estropeado is to mistreat/mistreated (in Mexico). Another good option would be la impresora está descompuesta. So once again, we run into regional differences in Spanish, which is great.

My goal with the Daily Word is not to be perfect. I'm happy if it sparks discussion, since then we can all learn something.

And you're right, ...imprimir este archivo... makes more sense than ... imprimir esta hoja...

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  #14  
Old April 28, 2008, 10:46 AM
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I think no sirve is used in a lot of Latin American Spanish, but it means
"it doesn't work" in a very general manner. You can say, Tengo fiebre
tomé aspirina. Todavía tengo fiebre no me sirvió
You can also say. Traté el nuevo detergente y no sirvió para quitar manchas de grasa.
No sirve doesn't really mean out oforder and no funciona
does. No sirve is kind of vague. No funciona
Is more specific. They both can mean roto but they have other meanings that roto doesn't have.
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  #15  
Old April 28, 2008, 11:42 AM
Alfonso Alfonso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
to urge is not the same as urgir
urgir
to be urgent
to be needed urgently
to be pressing
(Pero, en español, urgir no es lo mismo que ser urgente).



David, your traslation of urgir is only for intransitive cases, as:
  • Me urge hacer pis = I need urgently to do wee wee. And note that even in these cases the verbal regimes are different, as me urge works in Spanish as me duele, me parece, etc. (IO+V+S).
But it doesn't work when the use of urgir is transitive:
  • Me urgieron a que acabara, por eso lo hice tan mal.
  • El chaparrón nos urgió a marcharnos. Acabamos el fin de semana antes de tiempo.
  • El hambre y la hora me urgieron a hacer las fotocopias antes de que la fila se hiciera interminable, pero la máquina se negó a funcionar (possible context ).
In this last case, I think to urge and urgir mean the same:
  • Alguien / algo urge a alguien a hacer algo.
  • Someone / something urges somebody to do something.
I've checked both usages in RAE and Webster Dictionary. Tomísimo Dictionary also states: urgir = to urge.
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  #16  
Old April 28, 2008, 12:11 PM
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The reason I corrected
Quote:
... with me, this is the way of learning ...
is because it sounds too assuming/authoritarian, or philosophical (like Poli said). Instead of conveying the idea that everyone learns by being critiqued, it sounds nicer to my English ear to shift into first person and speak only about oneself at that point. By so doing, you communicate that you yourself learn by being critiqued, and you don't apply that philosophy on anyone else. This sounds nicer to my ear because I have met many folks who dislike, or even hate, being critiqued.

Another way to say "This is my way of learning" is "This is the way I learn." Both of these statements are very neutral. You can't go wrong with them.

If I've misinterpreted your intention, I'm sorry. I have to rely on semantics when I read what someone else has written. Sometimes I misinterpret meanings, or think they may have wanted to say something else and I make corrections based on those criteria.

I'll try to remember to explain my corrections in the future. Many of my corrections are simply to make your English sound more polished to the native speaker. They don't always imply that your English is wrong. I appreciate your help with my Spanish - removing the rust, as you once said.
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  #17  
Old April 28, 2008, 03:23 PM
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Hey, Rusty, you don't need to apologise. I'm only trying to find out what's your correcting criteria, and, at the same time, I'm criticising your critics (so we both are doing the same). It's natural if your corrections have arisen some doubts in me. Before this, I was confident on what I wrote. Now, I'm doubtful.

Anyway, I don't think in English the way of learning sounds more authoritarian than in Spanish la manera de aprender. Also in Spanish you can make it softer if you say: mi manera de aprender. But, what's the point on it? Both are correct, and they have different meanings. Of course, you could argue with me if I should be positive that this is the way of learning. But this is another question.

I have some more doubts. I only need to know your reasons. This way, I will be able to think by myself instead of imitating your English ear, which I really appreciate.

I thought servir uses to translate to be helpful was correct. You corrected: servir is transtalated to be helpful. Aren't these both phrases correct?

I really appreciate your help!
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  #18  
Old April 28, 2008, 09:27 PM
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The phrase 'servir uses to translate to be helpful' doesn't make sense as written. I believe you may have had "se usa para traducir" in mind. The verb 'uses' is an incomplete translation of 'se usa'. It usually appears in the passive voice:
servir is used to translate to be helpful
If you don't want to use the passive voice, the sentence needs rewritten:
Some use servir to translate to be helpful

I opted to keep the phrase in the passive voice, but shortened the 'passive voice verb + infinitive' construct. I did this because it would be used more people. It is OK to use either translation, however.
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Old April 29, 2008, 01:59 PM
Alfonso Alfonso is offline
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Sorry, Rusty, if I seem to be inquisitive. This may be because I read attentively what you write.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
I believe you may have had "se usa para traducir" in mind. The verb 'uses' is an incomplete translation of 'se usa'. It usually appears in the passive voice:
servir is used to translate to be helpful
If you don't want to use the passive voice, the sentence needs rewritten:

Some use servir to translate to be helpful
Actually, I had soler in mind, which very often translates to use*:
  • I use to go to the cinema.
  • Suelo ir al cine.
* Notice I used this structure: X translates Y to check, again, if I can use it this way, as in Spanish, in a formal or technichal language, you could say el verbo soler traduce to use, where the person who makes the translation doesn't appear.

Thanks a lot for your help!
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  #20  
Old April 29, 2008, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso View Post
... Actually, I had soler in mind, which very often translates to use*:
  • I use to go to the cinema.
  • Suelo ir al cine.
* Notice I used this structure: X translates Y to check, again, if I can use it this way, as in Spanish, in a formal or technichal language, you could say el verbo soler traduce to use, where the person who makes the translation doesn't appear.
Soler, in the present tense, means to be in the habit of. We seldom say it that way, however. La traducción más común es el verbo principal más usually:
Suelo ir al cine.
I usually go to the theater. (I am in the habit of going to the theater.)

So, the translation of:
Se suele traducir servir por to be helpful
is:
Servir is usually translated to be helpful

If the subject is known, the translation would be:
I usually translate servir as/to to be helpful.

Instead of saying 'as' or 'to' in the sentence above, we can pause slightly after the word servir. I mention this because it is very common to follow 'translate' with 'to' or 'as.'

If you want to say 'servir traduce to be helpful' in English, you say either:
servir is translated (as) to be helpful
or:
servir translates (as) to be helpful


In the past tense, soler is translated to be accustomed to. But, we seldom say it that way. Solemos decir (we usually say) used to:
Solía ir al cine.
I used to go to the theater.
(I was accustomed to going to the theater. -or- I was in the habit of going ...)

Another way to express 'used to' is would and the present tense verb:
We would stroll along the beach on Saturdays.
Solíamos dar un paseo por la playa los sábados.
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