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Comprender vs entender

 

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  #11  
Old July 25, 2009, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Of course, but how do you do that if you do not know the words in English and do not translate?

What was first the chicken or the egg?

Assuming you are not 5 years old and do not read or write...
I think you've drifted ito the wrong thread!
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  #12  
Old July 25, 2009, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Of course, but how do you do that if you do not know the words in English and do not translate?

What was first the chicken or the egg?

Assuming you are not 5 years old and do not read or write...
Quote:
Originally Posted by brute View Post
I think you've drifted ito the wrong thread!
I DO think he was contemplating the wrong thread.

Hernan - that is EXACTLY what I want to do. I WANT to learn like a toddler learns to speak his native language ... by seeing things and understanding words for their meaning, without using another language to "define". Starting with the most basic words, of course...... Obviously, I need to translate sometimes, but with the basic words (nouns that represent objects, action verbs, etc.), I want to have a basic mental image of what it means when I see/hear/use the word.

"Manzana" MEANS something to me ... it does not speak the word "apple" in my brain. When I see/hear/think/use the word "manzana", I see a red fruit that I enjoy eating (and using to make pies). I don't go back to the English. I want to have a comprehensive feel for at least these basic nouns and verbs that I will NOT need to translate.

It's like basic definitions in mathematics. There are certain words that you don't define (point, line, plane), and you use these terms to build definitions for all of the other terms. I want to have a basic vocabulary in Spanish that I do NOT translate into English. These words will then help me define other Spanish words......
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  #13  
Old July 25, 2009, 09:41 AM
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I didn't know there were the word 'comprehend' in English. So, I think I could translate my former sentence:

I can understand you, but I can't comprehend you (am I right? )

On the other hand, on learning languages I think there are some stages. First you study basic structures (syntax) and some vocabulary. Later, when you are more or less competent with syntax and some vocabulary, you start learning another way of saying the things you say in your own language, you go beyond and learn new structures and vocabulary. Is in that point when one is able to think in the language he studies. Anyway, one must know the meaning of the words in his own language, because if you don't, you're lost .
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  #14  
Old July 25, 2009, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Of course, but how do you do that if you do not know the words in English and do not translate?

What was first the chicken or the egg?

Assuming you are not 5 years old and do not read or write...
Quote:
Originally Posted by brute View Post
I think you've drifted ito the wrong thread!
Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
I DO think he was contemplating the wrong thread.
No, I wasn't... Re-read please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Hernan - that is EXACTLY what I want to do. I WANT to learn like a toddler learns to speak his native language ... by seeing things and understanding words for their meaning, without using another language to "define". Starting with the most basic words, of course...... Obviously, I need to translate sometimes, but with the basic words (nouns that represent objects, action verbs, etc.), I want to have a basic mental image of what it means when I see/hear/use the word.

"Manzana" MEANS something to me ... it does not speak the word "apple" in my brain. When I see/hear/think/use the word "manzana", I see a red fruit that I enjoy eating (and using to make pies). I don't go back to the English. I want to have a comprehensive feel for at least these basic nouns and verbs that I will NOT need to translate.

It's like basic definitions in mathematics. There are certain words that you don't define (point, line, plane), and you use these terms to build definitions for all of the other terms. I want to have a basic vocabulary in Spanish that I do NOT translate into English. These words will then help me define other Spanish words......
You mean to tell me, that now that you have a structure and you want to build on top, as you should, you want to demolish everything, and start anew... as if you were a 5 years old.

What's more, you want to demolish everything and not even take advantage of the base of the building...

Nothing nor nobody can stop you, but yourself.
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  #15  
Old July 25, 2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by chileno View Post
You mean to tell me, that now that you have a structure and you want to build on top, as you should, you want to demolish everything, and start anew... as if you were a 5 years old.

What's more, you want to demolish everything and not even take advantage of the base of the building...
I don't see it as demolishing anything. I think she just wants to force herself to use what she has learned.
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  #16  
Old July 25, 2009, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Crotalito, you're so kind

You too.
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  #17  
Old July 26, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
I don't see it as demolishing anything. I think she just wants to force herself to use what she has learned.
Hence she has to use translation first!

What was first, the egg or the chicken?
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  #18  
Old October 20, 2009, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
I didn't know there were the word 'comprehend' in English. So, I think I could translate my former sentence:

I can understand you, but I can't comprehend you (am I right? )
If I understand/comprehend what you previously said, quoted below, then no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
When you use "comprender" in some circumstances, you share a part from you with your speaker. For instance, I could say:

Te entiendo pero no te comprendo: I understand your words, but I don't share your opinion.
In English, comprehend does have that deeper meaning, but not with the other person, only within the individual. If someone read, "I understand you, but I don't comprehend you." a few times, they would maybe get the same idea as your translation, but it would not be intuitive. A clearer way would be to use that translation you gave. "...but I don't share your opinion." A more idiomatic way to express that in fewer words would be to maybe say, "I can't believe you." which implies, "I can't believe you would do that." This is similar to how it sounds like you are translating, "no te comprendo," though I think it's probably much more harsh than no te comprendo.

Also, in English you would use share "a part of" rather than "a part from".
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  #19  
Old October 21, 2009, 01:55 PM
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People I have a question.

Someone mentioned before a words very weir for me, really it's weir because I didn't find any register about it, I have found the word in the internet and only I found a lot meanings that it really became me suck and it confusing me more than now.

The word is Drift, I guess that it mean Derivar.

I hope you can answer my question.

Beforehand I thanking your support.
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  #20  
Old October 21, 2009, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Would it be correct to say that "comprender" would be like "comprehend" in English? Whereas "entender" would be more like "understand" in English? I feel like they are synonymous and interchangeable to a point, but "comprehend" has a deeper feel to it than "understand".

Ex:
I understand what you are saying.
She truly comprehends the gravity of her situation.

Does this subtlety exist with these two words in Spanish?
I wanted to share that, for me, "understand" and "comprehend" are completely synonymous in the contexts Laepelba is using. I'd have to intentionally search for nuance if I was told there was a difference; that is, it wouldn't have come to me initially upon hearing those sentences.

I hear "comprehend" used less frequently than "understand" so, for me, it has more of a formal sound but no difference in meaning for the two contexts above.


For example,

I comprehend what you are saying.

would sound somewhat pretentious to my ears.


Also, for me,

She truly comprehends the gravity of her situation.


biases the profundity of the meaning associated with "comprehends" since "truly" and "gravity" lend, well, more gravity to the statement and to the activity of comprehending, but not to the basic meaning of "comprehends" itself.


Therefore, if I heard,

She truly understands the gravity of her situation.

I'd give as much weight to the "understanding/comprehension/awareness of" activity represented by "understands" as I do for "comprehends".


And it would initially sound like a contradiction to me if I heard,

I understand you but I don't comprehend you.

So would,

I comprehend you but I don't understand you.

I'd have to go to the next category of meaning for "comprehend", that of "including, comprising, embracing", or another category of meaning for "understand" such as "thoroughly familar with something and its subtleties" to make sense of these statements.


There is a meaning of "comprehend" in English which I think Irma's sentence

Te entiendo pero no te comprendo.

shows Spanish also shares in its verb "comprender". It is the idea of inclusion/containment which can be extended in many ways, physically, emotionally, etc. So the sentence

I understand you but I don't comprehend you.

might mean, among multiple interpretations in English, "I understand you but I don't share your views." or "I'm completely familiar with who you are but I don't get why you're that way."


In any case, "entender", "comprender", "understand", and "comprehend" are such great verbs!
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Last edited by Cloudgazer; October 21, 2009 at 04:33 PM.
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