Precolumbian Ecuador

[BenCondor]

Hi,

I'm having trouble with this sentence I found in the Spanish wikipedia

Para el año 1470 d.C. (aprox.) los Cañaris fueron conquistados por los Incas, y el Inca Tupac Yupanqui refunda Guapondelig, pero esta vez como la ciudad más importante del Chinchaysuyo, Paucarbamba (que significa "llanura de flores"), luego fue llamada Tumipampa según se cree debido a la oposición de sus pobladores Cañaris que fueron degollados con un cuchillo circular llamado Tumi, esta teoría sin embargo es discutida por quienes creen que la ciudad fue renombrada por Huayna Capac en honor a su Panaca o Familia Real, o porque en el lugar se encontró un gran número de este tipo de cuchillos

Okay, here's how I'm interpreting this:

Around the year 1470 AD the Cañaris were conquered by the Incas, and the Inca leader Tupac Yupanqui rebuilt Gupondelig, but this time as the most important in Chinchaysuyo, renamed Paucarbamba (meaning 'land of flowers'). Later it was named Tumipampa . . .(???) . . . who had their throats cut by a circular knife called a Tumi. . .

I'm specifically baffled by this construction:

según se cree debido a la oposición de sus pobladores Cañaris

crearse= create for oneself (?)
según= 1. it (all) depends or 2. according to, in accordance with
debido a = owing to, on account of

So, "in accordance with the fact that the opposing Cañaris settlers had created for themselves [a situation where they had their throats slit with a round knife(??)]"

What does this mean and grammatically how does it work?

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Ben

[Rusty]

The construct 'se cree' comes from creerse, not crearse.

The use of the impersonal 'se' is how the Spanish more commonly express the English passive voice.

Roughly:
Según se cree = believed to be
debido a la oposición de sus pobladores = due to (because of) the opposition of its inhabitants

Your translation contains some additional words and doesn't quite capture the original meaning in other places.
The Spanish article has errors in it, by the way, one of them being 'refunda', which should have been written 'refundó'. Due to the prevalence of the passive voice in the paragraph, I'd say it wasn't written by someone whose native language is Spanish.

Welcome to the forums, by the way.

[BenCondor]

Thanks for the reply.

Okay, seeing that as the passive voice of 'creer' makes more sense, although I still have trouble with 'según'. I certainly wouldn't immediately see that as 'believed to be'. Según, like ya, seems to have senses which aren't immediately obvious to the non-native.

Yes, I caught the improper conjugation 'refunda' and translated it as if it were 'refundió'.

Also, my insertion of 'renamed' before Paucarbamba was just a guess at the author's intention. As I understand it, the city actually was named three times: Guapondelig, Paucarbamba then Tumipampa.
In English we might say 'renamed first as..., then renamed once again as... or something to that effect suggesting that we understand all of this renaming business could get confusing, which it does.

[chileno]

By the way, shouldn't it be "re-founds" as in "(he) re-establishes".

"By the year 1470 AD (approximately) the ...

plain/prairie of flowers

"according to the belief due to" or like Rusty pointed out "believed to be due to"

Hope it helps.

[aleCcowaN]

refunda (he founds again -a city-)

It's present tense, which is called presente histórico, a narration in present tense that shows past events as if they are happening now in a continuous chain. Does not have English such feature?

[BenCondor]

Hi,
Yes, there is such thing as an historical present in English but it is sparingly used, and certainly not in this context.

As for the meaning of "refundir": in English "to found" (ergo "refound") is an ambiguous term. Do you mean he simply set a cornerstone and walked away? Carved a new name on a few buildings? I did assume there was more than renaming, and guessed there was some building involved. Also I think "Refound" is pretty unusual (though it is certainly a word). You risk having the reader scratching his/her head thinking "Hmm. He rediscovered the city, wait, I thought he just conquered it? Jeez, get him a new compass."

As for "By the year 1470 AD (approximately) ..." It sounds awkward. I'm invoking Strunk and White by condensing this to "Around the year 1470..." Or probably better you could say: "In the late 15th century..." Because it's doubtful the dating is any more accurate than that.

Here's the new translation. This is significantly modified from the original as it is virtually impossible to render it directly with anything approximating good English. I'm guessing it isn't particularly well-written in Spanish though it is probably "correct" grammatically.

Around the year 1470 AD the Cañaris were conquered by the Incas, and the Incan leader Tupac Yupanqui rebuilt Guapodelig, but this time as the most important in Chinchaysuyo. Yupanqui renamed the city Paucarbamba, meaning “land of flowers”. The city was renamed again later as Tumipampa. The origin of this name is controversial. One theory suggests it came about because restive Cañaris who rose up against the Inca rulers had their throats cut with a circular knife called a Tumi. However this theory is disputed by those who believe that the city was renamed after Huayna Capac in honor of “Panaca” (Real Family). Yet another theory suggests the name simply came about because a large number of such knives were discovered in this area.

Thanks for the replies.

[aleCcowaN]

refundir = to melt again
refundar = to found again

[BenCondor]

Hi,
Thanks. You're right, I didn't catch that.

[Rusty]

Around the year 1470 AD the Cañaris were conquered by the Incas, and the Incan leader (not in the Spanish version) Tupac Yupanqui rebuilt Guapodelig, but this time as the most important city in Chinchaysuyo. Yupanqui renamed the city Paucarbamba, meaning “flower prarie”. The city was renamed again later as Tumipampa. The origin of this name is controversial. One theory suggests it came about because restive Cañaris who rose up against the Inca rulers had their throats cut with a circular knife called a Tumi. However this theory is disputed by those who believe that the city was renamed after Huayna Capac in honor of his “Panaca” (Royal Family). Yet another theory suggests the name simply came about because a large number of such knives were discovered in this area.

Good job!