Me pidió tomar su clase

[tacuba]

Buenas noches Malila:

En otro tema, dijiste que "Me pidió que tomara su clase = Me pidió tomar su clase (not my first choice, but not incorrect.)"

Bueno, ahora estoy muy confudido. Pensé que cuando hay un cambio del sujeto en la segunda cláusula, hay que poner un verbo subjuntivo en la segunda cláusula si el verbo en la primera cláusula es un verbo de deseo, imperativo, etc......

¿Me podrías explicar un poco más, por favor, porque no puedo encontrar nada de eso en las gramáticas.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by tacuba

Buenas noches Malila:

En otro tema, dijiste que "Me pidió que tomara su clase = Me pidió tomar su clase (not my first choice, but not incorrect.)"

Bueno, ahora estoy muy confudido. Pensé que cuando hay un cambio del sujeto en la segunda cláusula, hay que poner un verbo subjuntivo en la segunda cláusula si el verbo en la primera cláusula es un verbo de deseo, imperativo, etc......

¿Me podrías explicar un poco más, por favor, porque no puedo encontrar nada de eso en las gramáticas.

You know that I don't know grammar, but here I go with my "visual"

Me pidió que tomara su clase = He/She asked me that I take his/her class

Me pidió tomar su clase = He/She asked me to take his/her class

Does it help?

[tacuba]

Originally Posted by chileno

You know that I don't know grammar, but here I go with my "visual"

Me pidió que tomara su clase = He/She asked me that I take his/her class

Me pidió tomar su clase = He/She asked me to take his/her class

Does it help?

Yes. Thanks Chileno.

I guess my grammar book has it wrong then. It says:

"Some verbs can be followed by a noun clause in the subjunctive or by an infinitive without a change in meaning. An indirect object pronoun is optional if these verbs are followed by a subjunctive clause, but is obligatory when followed by the infinitive. These verbs include: aconsejar, exigir, impedir, mandar, permitir, prohibir, recomendar, rogar, sugerir."

"The verbs decir and pedir are followed by a subjunctive clause. They may occur with with an indirect object."

This was the cause of my confusion. I will take the advice of native speakers over grammar books every time.

Thanks again.

[Perikles]

Well, the trouble is that my grammar book is quite explicit here, in that you can only use pedir with an infinitive if there is no change of subject:

Pedimos ir juntos We asked to go together

i.e. we asked that we go together, no change of subject.

With a change of subject, you need the subjunctive:

No se lo digáis a Enrique Don't tell Enrique
Then: Nos ha pedido que no se lo digamos a Enrique He/She has asked us not to tell Enrique.

Here, there is a change in subject between the main clause and the subordinate clause: somebody asks us not to do something.

If the above is correct, then pidío tomar su clase can't be correct, because there is a change of subject, unless it means he asked if he (himself) could take his (own) class.

HELP

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

Well, the trouble is that my grammar book is quite explicit here, in that you can only use pedir with an infinitive if there is no change of subject:

Pedimos ir juntos We asked to go together

i.e. we asked that we go together, no change of subject.

With a change of subject, you need the subjunctive:

No se lo digáis a Enrique Don't tell Enrique
Then: Nos ha pedido que no se lo digamos a Enrique He/She has asked us not to tell Enrique.

Here, there is a change in subject between the main clause and the subordinate clause: somebody asks us not to do something.

If the above is correct, then pidío tomar su clase can't be correct, because there is a change of subject, unless it means he asked if he (himself) could take his (own) class.

HELP

I think the key word here is

"me pidió tomar su clase"

"(me) pidió que tomara su clase"

The last one depends on ???

él (me, te, le, les nos) pidió que tomara(n,mos) su clase.

Now:

Pidió tomar su clase. She/he asked her class to be taken (general announcement/recommendation to all interested)

Better?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Better?

I'm afraid not. If he/she says me pidió tomar su clase whom does he/she want to take the class? He or me?

[chileno]

Originally Posted by Perikles

I'm afraid not. If he/she says me pidió tomar su clase whom does he/she want to take the class? He or me?

Ok, context:

You and I are talking in school, and the teacher (male/female) passes by, either one of us could say "me pidió tomar su clase", while looking at the teacher, or making a motion of the lips to indicate the teacher etc....

Does it help?

[Perikles]

Originally Posted by chileno

Does it help?

No - even more baffling.

[chileno]

Originally Posted by chileno

Ok, context:

You and I are talking in school, and the teacher (male/female) passes by, either one of us could say "me pidió tomar su clase", while looking at the teacher, or making a motion of the lips to indicate the teacher etc....

Does it help?

Originally Posted by Perikles

No - even more baffling.

Check post #8 from the following link: http://forums.tomisimo.org/showthrea...ight=posesivos

I hope it helps.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Tacuba: It is true that the subject change needs a subjunctive, while a sentence with the same subject needs an infinitive. If you keep the rule, you won't miss.
Still, although the subjunctive with the same subject sounds rather clumsy, I hear the infinitive with a different subject used more often, and it doesn't feel that awkward to me.

@Perikles: Amphibology is a bit forced here. One would assume that the subject is the same in "me pidió tomar su clase" only if there were a clear context where something impedes the teacher from taking her own class. But in most cases, "me pidió tomar su clase" would be understood as her asking me to do the work.