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A King changed the pronunciation of Z and C?

 

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  #11  
Old June 23, 2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ookami View Post
Imagine if Spain would have had (hubiera tenido?) a stammering or a lame king, or something like that. Or if instead of "Alfonso the Wise", the monarch was "Catalina the Gorgeous", and the same thing happened. I would be living in Spain for sure! :P
"King" se puede usar únicamente para monarcas varones.
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  #12  
Old June 23, 2010, 11:44 AM
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"Hubiera tenido" = "had had" in this context.

Example: : "If he had had the money, he would have bought the car;
if he had bought the car, he would have had a vehicle that same day."

"Si hubiera tenido el dinero, habría comprado el coche; si hubiera comprado
el coche, habría tenido un vehículo el mismo día."

(Igualmente, favor de corregir mi castellano)
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Last edited by hermit; June 23, 2010 at 12:26 PM.
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  #13  
Old June 23, 2010, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hermit View Post
"Hubiera tenido" = "had had" in this context.
There appear to be common dialects of en-us which use the conditional for the condition as well as the consequent; here the conditional perfect is unremarkable although in en-gb (and, judging from your reaction, en-ca) it would be the pluperfect.
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  #14  
Old June 23, 2010, 07:04 PM
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CrOtALiTo CrOtALiTo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermit View Post
"Hubiera tenido" = "had had" in this context.

Example: : "If he had had the money, he would have bought the car;
if he had bought the car, he would have had a vehicle that same day."

"Si hubiera tenido el dinero, habría comprado el coche;
Si hubiera comprado el coche, habría tenido un vehículo el mismo día."


(Igualmente, favor de corregir mi castellano)

Hello Hermit.

I saw your post and I can see that everything is right.
Only I set the phrase at its place.

Greetings.
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  #15  
Old June 23, 2010, 07:20 PM
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ookami ookami is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt33 View Post
There appear to be common dialects of en-us which use the conditional for the condition as well as the consequent; here the conditional perfect is unremarkable although in en-gb (and, judging from your reaction, en-ca) it would be the pluperfect.
Es decir, ¿mi opción estaría bien en Br y la de hermit sería la más común en Us?

Gracias por sendas colaboraciones.
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  #16  
Old June 24, 2010, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ookami View Post
Imagine if Spain would have had (hubiera tenido?) a stammering or a lame king, or something like that. Or if instead of "Alfonso the Wise", the king was "Catalina the Gorgeous", and the same thing happened. I would be living in Spain for sure! :P
Why would you, Ookami?

And if I told you the kind of kings and queens we have had...
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  #17  
Old June 24, 2010, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ookami View Post
Es decir, ¿mi opción estaría bien en Br y la de hermit sería la más común en Us?
Al revés.
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  #18  
Old June 24, 2010, 06:08 PM
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ookami ookami is offline
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Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
Why would you, Ookami?

And if I told you the kind of kings and queens we have had...
You ought me that chat (siempre quise usar ese verbo)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjt33 View Post
Al revés.
Crystal clear, thank you very much
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  #19  
Old December 15, 2010, 01:56 PM
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I've also heard the myth about the lisping king and been the butt of many a joke about sounding homosexual when speaking in the peninsular dialect. According to David Pharies in A Brief History of The Spanish Language, the myth is totally false. The z/c sounding like [th] was happening before Philip II came to power. Apparently it developed from several different sounds coming down through Latin and the early Romance Languages. Pharies also uses a lot of LaPesa's work in his book. It's a great read.

Going off of what Jpablo said about the different types of Spanish spoken in the Americas, I've heard a theory that says the first regions explored in the Americas, such as rivers, coasts, and islands, have a Spanish that closely resembles that of Andalucia where many of the explorers/sailors came from. However, the inland areas and capital cities have a Spanish that more closely resembles that of Madrid, since aristocrats and nobility were sent to run them and settlers from all parts of Spain came once the coastal/river areas were established.

A lot of the Caribbean Spanish sounds an awful lot like Andalusian Spanish, just without the zeta [th] sound, but I haven't spoken with enough South American folks of different geographic areas to know if that theory of dialect development holds true. I can't cite specific examples, but I do feel like I've heard a little bit of the z/c [th] in a couple cases from Argentinians or Columbians a couple times, but that usage is very rare and probably only for specific words in specific instances...
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