Acudir + Preposition

[irmamar]

"Acudir" is not used as a pronominal verb, although you'll be able to find the form "acudirse" in impersonal sentences (which doesn't mean that it is a pronominal use from "acudir"):

Ante un peligro, debe acudirse a la autoridad competente.
Si existen dudas con el vocabulario, puede acudirse al diccionario.
Puede acudirse a las diferentes bases de datos si no se encuentra el registro.
Tras el nacimiento, debe acudirse al Registro Civil para notificar el hecho y dar de alta al recién nacido.
etc.


Edit: "se acudió a los recursos disponibles" is a completely correct sentence, but note its impersonal use.

[silopanna]

Originally Posted by irmamar

"Acudir" is not used as a pronominal verb, although you'll be able to find the form "acudirse" in impersonal sentences (which doesn't mean that it is a pronominal use from "acudir"):

Ante un peligro, debe acudirse a la autoridad competente.
Si existen dudas con el vocabulario, puede acudirse al diccionario.
Puede acudirse a las diferentes bases de datos si no se encuentra el registro.
Tras el nacimiento, debe acudirse al Registro Civil para notificar el hecho y dar de alta al recién nacido.
etc.


Edit: "se acudió a los recursos disponibles" is a completely correct sentence, but note its impersonal use.

Irmamar,

Thank you for your further elucidation. I see how the pronoun is employed when the verb is used in the impersonal construction; and your examples make it all very clear. No problem, really, my original lack of understanding is all cleared up.

Still, I would like to ask something else because, you know, an answer can sometimes lead to another question: when you construct in this impersonal way, is this what we call the passive voice in English?

Thanks for the attention.

Silopanna/Dean

[pjt33]

Originally Posted by silopanna

Still, I would like to ask something else because, you know, an answer can sometimes lead to another question: when you construct in this impersonal way, is this what we call the passive voice in English?

It's not passive voice, but it's frequently used as a technique for avoiding having to use the passive voice.

No es la voz pasiva, pero se usa a menudo como técnica para evitar tener que usar la voz pasiva.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

It's actually a form of passive voice. It's called "voz pasiva refleja".
An active verb is used in the third person (singular and plural) with "se", which is used to replace something or someone indeterminate (who is performing the action).

No se sabe dónde desapareció el avión.
It is not known where the plane disappeared.

Juan gasta mucho dinero. Se diría que es millonario.
Juan spends too much money. One would say he's a millionaire.

Se habla inglés.
English spoken.

[JPablo]

It is funny...
Acuden a mi memoria recuerdos del inefable Jesús Hermida, (corresponsal de Televisión Española en Nueva York). Solía dar sus informes en los TeleDiarios y otros programas informativos, y había gente que también imitaba su manera de hablar:

"En círculos de Wall Street, se habla, se comenta, se especula, se cree, se vaticina y se espera con ansiedad... un resurgimiento de la economía a partir de la nueva injección de cordura..." (El ejemplo inventado, pero el uso, y abuso, del "se" era algo típicamente suyo...)

También recuerdo a mi profesora de lengua de bachillerato, quien le dedicó algo así como 3 clases, de 1 hora cada una, para hablar y estudiar todas la posibilidades del "se"... "Se necesita paciencia"... pero es un tema apasionante.
Se vende. = On sale.
Se venden pisos = Aparments on sale.
Se reparte a domicilio = Home delivery service [we deliver]
Se castigará a los culpables = those responsible will be punished.

And so on and so forth...

[irmamar]

Well, I wouldn't say that it's a passive form. Note that 'acudir' is not a transitive verb. You only can transform an active sentence into passive if the verb is transitive. In high school we study "se" forms" in depth (as Jpablo said, although I think we spent more than three days ).

There are two kind of passive sentence in Spanish, one of them is called pasiva perifrástica, with the verb to be. This one doesn't have a very common use. Instead, we use very often pasiva refleja, with "se". In passive sentences, the subject becomes the object (and vice versa):

Esta tienda necesita un empleado. Activa
Un empleado es necesitado por esta tienda. Pasiva perifrástica.
Se necesita un empleado. Pasiva refleja.

We use p. refleja because usually the object (subject in the active sentence) is not needed to know or we know it.

Impersonal sentences use se and their construction is almost the same:

Debe acudirse /se debe acudir al diccionario.
Se come muy bien aquí.

But there is an important difference which follows the rule "the verb must agree with the subject in number and person" (person will be third singular always, both in pasivas and impersonales. This will give you the clue to know if it is an impersonal sentence or a pasiva refleja one:

Se necesita un empleado - Se necesitan varios empleados.
Se acudirá al diccionario - - -

This link will give you additional information and examples.

[silopanna]

PJT33, Angelica, JPablo, Irmamar,

I thank the four of you for defining this verb tense for me, Pasiva Refleja. Your commentsn have cleared a few things up for me.

Silopanna

[JPablo]

You're welcome, glad to know we helped you. You can try to make examples of your own, and see how it works and let us know if any further question.