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Confusing personal pronouns

 

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  #1  
Old August 17, 2011, 06:55 AM
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Confusing personal pronouns

This is in the grammar section, because I (hopefully) don't need a translation. I'm just bothered about who is doing what and where: (a couple of paragraphs later that becomes blindingly obvious, but that's not the point ):

Quote:
La acompañó a su casa. Ya en la puerta, y en vista de que era casi medianoche y no había nadie en la casa, la convenció de que lo invitara a un brandy mientras veían los álbumes de recortes y fotografias de más de diez años de acontecimientos públicos .......(Márquez again)
I understand this as:

he accompanied her to her house .... he convinced her to invite him in for a brandy while they look at ...

Now I know this is the way to understand it, because the sentence finishes with ...que ella decía tener. So they must be at her house. But could it not also be understood, (until the end bit), as

he accompanied her to his house .... he convinced her that he should invite her in for a brandy while they look at ...

If that reading were not possible, how would the sentence differ? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old August 17, 2011, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
This is in the grammar section, because I (hopefully) don't need a translation. I'm just bothered about who is doing what and where: (a couple of paragraphs later that becomes blindingly obvious, but that's not the point ):


I understand this as:

he accompanied her to her house .... he convinced her to invite him in for a brandy while they look at ...

Now I know this is the way to understand it, because the sentence finishes with ...que ella decía tener. So they must be at her house. But could it not also be understood, (until the end bit), as

he accompanied her to his house .... he convinced her that he should invite her in for a brandy while they look at ...

If that reading were not possible, how would the sentence differ? Thanks.

La acompañó a su casa.

Cannot be his house, because then it would change to "they both went to his house." You cannot accompany somebody to your house!

Think about the second one... it is also obvious even in English, for the same reason
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Old August 17, 2011, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Cannot be his house, because then it would change to "they both went to his house." You cannot accompany somebody to your house!
I'm not sure whether that would sound odd or not. Then how would it be in Spanish?
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Old August 17, 2011, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
I'm not sure whether that would sound odd or not. Then how would it be in Spanish?

hmmm


I accompany you to my house. you and I/we went to my house.


he accompany her to his house. She and he went to his house.

Right?

Last edited by chileno; August 17, 2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old August 17, 2011, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
he accompanied her to his house .... he convinced her that he should invite her in for a brandy while they look at ...
La llevó a su casa ... la convenció de que él (habría de invitarle/le invitaría) un coñac mientras miraban ... (I can't extract any Spanish-like subjunctive from that "should")
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Old August 17, 2011, 10:49 AM
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Es verdad que los pronombres en español me llevan al huerto. Hay veces que me enreden tanto analizando la gramática de la frase que pierdo el significado de lo que está escrito.
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Old August 17, 2011, 11:25 AM
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@Perikles: If it had been his house, as Chileno and Alec say, he would have said "la llevó a su casa". And he wouldn't have had to convince her to invite him in for a drink, as he would have been the one who would have offered it: "Le invitó un brandy".

(Márquez is not prone to amphibologies, unless they're needed.)
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Old August 17, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
Then how would it be in Spanish?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
She and he went to his house.Right?
Hmmm. Baffling answer. Thanks anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Perikles: If it had been his house, as Chileno and Alec say, he would have said "la llevó a su casa".
Ah - OK, thanks everyone - I see a difference.
Quote:
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(Márquez is not prone to amphibologies,
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Old August 17, 2011, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
La acompañó a su casa. Ya en la puerta, y en vista de que era casi medianoche y no había nadie en la casa, la convenció de que lo invitara a un brandy mientras veían los álbumes de recortes y fotografias de más de diez años de acontecimientos públicos .......(Márquez again)

I understand this as:

he accompanied her to her house .... he convinced her to invite him in for a brandy while they look at ...
To me, it is obvious that he accompanied her to her house.. if it weren't her house García Márquez wouldn't use the verb "acompañar" but "llevar" or maybe "invitar".

It does say that he convinced her to invite him in to have a glass of brandy. I don't think that can be understood any other way because of the way the pronouns are used, and I don't see how she could invite him to have a drink if they were at his house.. It wouldn't make any sense.

They are at her house, of course, and they are going to drink her brandy while....

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  #10  
Old August 18, 2011, 03:26 AM
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OK - thanks. Different verb needed. That su still remains irritatingly unspecific for me though, when I'm used to a his/her or sein/ihr.
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