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  #1  
Old February 14, 2009, 10:31 PM
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Spanish b/v

I am having some concerns about my pronunciations. We've discussed this before ... and I got some great advice about my "r"'s and "rr"'s. I am currently in LOVE with the song "verde"!

Anyway - my new pronunciation question is about the "b/v" sounds. I was taught (long ago) that in Spanish, the "b" and the "v" are pronounced exactly the same. And that is how I have been pronouncing them. "Bebo café" and "Vivo en Washington, DC" use the same consonant sounds the way I say them. Now in the past week and a half, I have had several different (Salvadoran) people tell me that they have to be pronounced differently, and I am confused....

I have looked online and have found the following:
- b/v sound the same: http://www.studyspanish.com/pronunciation/letter_bv.htm
- b/v sound the same: http://www.123teachme.com/learn_spanish/pronunciation
- and so on ... everywhere I looked, it said "b and v exactly the same"...

SOOoooo - I am assuming that it's a regional thing, right? So my real question is this: my main regions of focus are Peru and Uruguay because the closest friends I have who speak Spanish are from those countries. And although the conference I may attend in Mexico (May) will include people from all over Latin America ... I am hoping to go to Peru and Uruguay this July, and want to be somewhat understandable (!!??) to the native speakers there....

Thanks!!!
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  #2  
Old February 15, 2009, 06:13 AM
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B and V are pronounced exactly the same. However, there are two pronunciations of the B/V. When these letters fall between vowels, the B/V is 'softened' - you say an English B, but you don't totally close your lips together (you get very close to it, but you don't). So, in the word beber (and vivir), there are two different pronunciations of the letter b (v).
Other than the difference between an inital/post-consonant b/v and an intervocal b/v, if someone tells you that b and v are pronounced differently, this is a regional thing.
  #3  
Old February 15, 2009, 06:32 AM
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As Rusty says, the b and v are both pronounced the same. Normally they are a pronounced just like in English as a stop or plosive consonant meaning that you close your lips and they pronounce the sound. When the b or v comes between vowels, it changes to a fricative meaning you touch your lips together but don't close them. Try ponouncing a b without totally closing your lips-- the whole time air should be escaping from the mouth.

Another aspect of this is hypercorrection or overcompensation. This is a linguistic concept where people see the two letters look different, or they study a foreign language (English/French) where the sounds are different, and in a proscriptive manner, and in an effort to sound more educated, start pronouncing the b and v differently, for instance as they are pronounced in English.
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Old February 15, 2009, 10:13 AM
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Although B and V are pronounced exactly the same. They should be pronounced exactly the same as in english. We are taught in our Castelian classes the difference between both.

Of those classes I only remember the terms "fricativo" and something like "palatar"?

Angelica, Rusty and David. Can you add some to this? That you know already. I know, I know. I can always look in up in the internet. :-)

Hernan.
  #5  
Old February 15, 2009, 11:05 AM
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The funny thing is that you're all confirming what I already thought. "B and V the same in Spanish." I'm not saying I have it *right* ... as in, I don't know that I make the right sound ... the right amount of teeth vs. lip vs. air vs. everything else. But I've been pronouncing them exactly the same. These three Salvadoran girls (who don't know each other) have ALL said "NO - they should be two very different sounds. The B more explosive and the V softer." Thus I assumed a regional difference.

Do you know what I'd find in Peru or in Lima?
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Old February 15, 2009, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
The funny thing is that you're all confirming what I already thought. "B and V the same in Spanish." I'm not saying I have it *right* ... as in, I don't know that I make the right sound ... the right amount of teeth vs. lip vs. air vs. everything else. But I've been pronouncing them exactly the same. These three Salvadoran girls (who don't know each other) have ALL said "NO - they should be two very different sounds. The B more explosive and the V softer." Thus I assumed a regional difference.
Yes, you are assuming correctly, but also it happens within a spanish country. :-)

Use as you would use it in English, and you will not miss it, not will be missed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Do you know what I'd find in Peru or in Lima?
Both.


Hernan.
  #7  
Old February 15, 2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Yes, you are assuming correctly, but also it happens within a spanish country. :-)

Use as you would use it in English, and you will not miss it, not will be missed.



Both.


Hernan.
I actually meant to say "peru or uruguay", but you get the picture.

Both, huh. I just don't want to sound so stupid as to not get it. I'm going to be "tutored" by a former student of mine who is Salvadoran, and she is determined to teach me the difference between B's and V's ... and I'm a bit resistant. She insists there's a difference that I need to learn.

If it's similar to someone from Mississippi coming to New York with a gorgeous southern drawl, where New Yorkers (like me, anyway) find the sound of the drawl very pleasing, then I'd love to pick up a little bit of an accent like that. BUT ... if it's like the opposite ... where a New Yorker goes to the South and sounds horrid to the Southern ears, then I want to avoid it........

Maybe I should just concentrate on learning my false cognates...
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  #8  
Old February 15, 2009, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
I actually meant to say "peru or uruguay", but you get the picture.

Both, huh. I just don't want to sound so stupid as to not get it. I'm going to be "tutored" by a former student of mine who is Salvadoran, and she is determined to teach me the difference between B's and V's ... and I'm a bit resistant. She insists there's a difference that I need to learn.

If it's similar to someone from Mississippi coming to New York with a gorgeous southern drawl, where New Yorkers (like me, anyway) find the sound of the drawl very pleasing, then I'd love to pick up a little bit of an accent like that. BUT ... if it's like the opposite ... where a New Yorker goes to the South and sounds horrid to the Southern ears, then I want to avoid it........

Maybe I should just concentrate on learning my false cognates...
If you are going to sound at all, it will be as a foreigner. Nothing more, nothing less. Never stupid or anything near that. :-)

Plus, like Rusty already advised, you are going to sound adorable.


About false cognates

You, Angelica, Rusty and David:

Please list your false cognates. Los miro pero no me entran...:-)

Hernan

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Chileno: it is true that most of us have been taught in school there is a "b labial" and a "v labiodental", but even the Academy has denied such difference, so I play it on the easy side.
Is it true? I cannot believe that. And all this time making hincapié on it. ;->

I tell my people all the time that for us barco o varco is the same thing because it floats!

Hernan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Yeah - I'm really, really struggling with the "r" and "rr" - BOTH of them. I think I'm okay with an "r" in the middle of a word between two vowels. That's the ONLY one I think I'm doing correctly.
Do you know how to imitate an Irish accent?

Laepelba:

About Vaca and Baca.

The first one is an animal, and the second, too! :-)

I mean the second is a last name.

Hernan.

Last edited by Rusty; February 15, 2009 at 07:52 PM.
  #9  
Old February 15, 2009, 12:52 PM
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When in Rome ...

When everyone around you pronounces the b and v differently, you may choose to sound like them. When you're in the rest of the places where the b and v are pronounced the same, you may choose to sound like the rest of us.

Kidding aside, no one is going to think you sound terrible. You'll have an accent (try as you might), yes, but from what I hear, accents are adored by all. Open your mouth and sing your song.
  #10  
Old February 15, 2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
When in Rome ...

When everyone around you pronounces the b and v differently, you may choose to sound like them. When you're in the rest of the places where the b and v are pronounced the same, you may choose to sound like the rest of us.

Kidding aside, no one is going to think you sound terrible. You'll have an accent (try as you might), yes, but from what I hear, accents are adored by all. Open your mouth and sing your song.

@laepelba: Follow Rusty's advice.

The truth is that difference is relevant only in writing. "V" and "b" sounds are not as crucial in Spanish as they are in other languages. If you're going to set your attention on pronunciation, the priority will be in vocals, and for accent reasons, "r"/"rr", "l"/"ll" and "ñ"; if you went to Spain, "s" and "z"/"c" should be also to be cared for.


[offtopic] After learning some French, a Mexican friend of mine visited Paris and decided to order some "hot wine" in a restaurant. That should be "vin chaud", but if you pronounce "vin" with a Spanish "b/v", the word in French sounds like "bain chaud" ("a hot bath"), so when he spoke, the waiter perplexedly looked at him asked "here and now?!" ... My friend learnt the hard way that there is a difference... in other languages. [/offtopic]


@Chileno: it is true that most of us have been taught in school there is a "b labial" and a "v labiodental", but even the Academy has denied such difference, so I play it on the easy side.
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