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Differences in U.S. and Mexico?

 

Questions about culture and cultural differences between countries and languages.


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  #41  
Old June 16, 2011, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
Yo me refería a los '50 ¿Tú viviste los '50?

Con respecto a Cole, yo hablo de lo que aprendí por experiencia y con el castellano como lengua materna. Claro que si presentan un disco lleno de mariachis éste tendrá mucho éxito ... donde abundan los mariachis. No te dejes llevar por las noticias de "ser un gran éxito" que preceden al lanzamiento del "éxito" -que es el "¡llame ya!" de todas las épocas- y que ponderan de rebote al circunstancial editor patasucia de Wikipedia, que sólo escribe de cosas importantes, como ser "grandes éxitos".

Lo del hideous accent mejor ni hablemos ¡Alguien de la misma lengua materna del cantante aludido asegura que no! ¡Guau, qué evidencia!

En última instancia, todo se reduce a que Cole ya era una figura de algún modo popular y mucha gente pagó por oirlo cantar de una manera que pudiera -a duras penas- entender.

Me iba a entretener explicando el ritmo tónico anglo del acento de Cole entre muchas otras cosas, pero todo se reduce siempre a lo mismo: De un lado de la balanza Latinoamerica, del otro, un minúsculo átomo del mundo anglosajón: Cole. La propia estructura de tu respuesta y mi contra-réplica representa exactamente lo que estábamos hablando. Quod erat demostrandum.


Hay algo en tu lógico que no cuaja.
No creo que mi opinion es inferior al tuyo solo porque mi madre legua no es
español. Este hecho no debe tener efecto en mi capacidad de juzgar el sonido de la voz de alguien o si esa person pronuncia claramente. ¿No estoy en los cierto? Si no tengo razón ¿es verdad que me opinión sea inferior porque soy anglo? --I never knew that before. Thank you in advance for the revelation. .
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  #42  
Old June 16, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Well, he didn't like the singers in the Chilean song with an artificial accent that I posted a while ago either.
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  #43  
Old June 16, 2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poli View Post


Hay algo en tu lógico que no cuaja.
No creo que mi opinion es inferior al tuyo solo porque mi madre legua no es
español. Este hecho no debe tener efecto en mi capacidad de juzgar el sonido de la voz de alguien o si esa person pronuncia claramente. ¿No estoy en los cierto? Si no tengo razón ¿es verdad que me opinión sea inferior porque soy anglo? --I never knew that before. Thank you in advance for the revelation. .
"Inferior" es una palabra muy fuerte. Todo depende de qué quieres hacer con tu opinión. Si te ofreces para trabajar de instrumento sensible de alta calidad en la detección de acentos hispanos ... don't quit your day job. Si yo me atreviera a hacer lo mismo en inglés, me quemarían en la hoguera.

Yo no puedo reconocer la diferencia entre un acento nicaragüense y un acento tampiqueño; no puedo reconocer la diferencia entre un acento leonés y uno murciano; puedo reconocer la diferencia entre un acento salteño y uno santiagueño y puedo reconocer la diferencia entre un acento del sur de la ciudad de Buenos Aires y otro del Oeste del Gran Buenos Aires. Eso quiere decir que nuestra capacidad para juzgar los acentos depende enormemente de nuestra experiencia. Los padres de mis amigos que hablaban con un marcado acento español -a tal punto que generan la idea de que son unos necios irreductibles que viven 40 años en un país y no pueden desprenderse de su acento como tampoco de su "tú" y de su "vosotros sois"- cuando vuelven a España les preguntan "¿argentinos?" o en el mejor de los casos les dicen "yo creía que eran de Canarias". Esto quiere decir que hay enormes variaciones regionales a las que somos "sordos" ¿Te imaginas lo que puede pasarte a ti cuando quieres juzgar la calidad del acento de Cole? ¿Con que acento canta? ¿Tampiqueño? ¿Murciano? ¿Salteño? Ilústranos, ya que la prudencia no te gobierna en este asunto.

You are right, his accent is not so hideous, just plain bad. I found the song I used to sing as a child mimicking him: Adelita



... ən ʊn bükə ðə gera ...

To review contemporary technology to edit sountracks you may see the movie La Bamba (1987) starred by Lou Diamond Phillips as Ritchie Valens, an anglo product (by the way, Ritchie Valens couldn't speak Spanish and sung La Bamba using phonetics: that's a good accent for a singer and musician that has to have an ear). So we are hearing the best snippets of long recording sessions, all of it in a professional environment. It's all marked by instability, the same verses are used and the pronunciation flickers. The accent is definitely unspanish and he fails completely the golden rule of singers: to sing like he's feeling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballero View Post
Well, he didn't like the singers in the Chilean song with an artificial accent that I posted a while ago either.
But that was some Hispanic accent anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caballero View Post
Ok so you were born sometime between the late 1950s and the present day.
As for the other question, I couldn't find the answers. Maybe I didn't understand everything.
-¿Es tu actual foto?
When that picture was taken I was nearly 30 indeed (and skinny too, boohoo!). More information about the photo in my profile image.
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Originally Posted by Caballero View Post
-¿Porqué has usado "tú"?
Because I don't use "vos" in web forums. Students have problems enough to add variations on top of it, besides web forums are not places for friendly chat but serious web resources to be used in the future. Any "voseante" can use "tú" and any educated "tuteante" can use "vos". If I can write in English, a language I barely know, why wouldn't I use "tú" naturally?
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Last edited by AngelicaDeAlquezar; June 20, 2011 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Merged back-to-back posts
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  #44  
Old June 16, 2011, 06:15 PM
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You're right. It is awful. I was not aware of his Mexican endeavors. I like his boleros though. He worked with Olga Guillot and Lucho Gatica. The accent was obviously American in the boleros but nice. Older Caribbean friends I have love his charming American accent in those songs believe it or not, so I'm not the only one. Some like Edye Gorme too, but she's kind of Hispanic via the Bronx, and you can definitely hear the Bronx in her voice.
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Last edited by poli; June 16, 2011 at 06:18 PM.
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  #45  
Old June 16, 2011, 06:40 PM
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aleCcowaN aleCcowaN is offline
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Oh! Context is everything. Today I found his accent not so bad, but I now understand spoken English a bit and those sounds are also a little bit "my sounds" now.

I found this performance very believable (I think they avoided any rr) and the foreign accent to be indeed a nice touch:



When singing in English Nat King Cole has an English accent that I like and I found that accent easy to understand. I like his voice. He is one of a few dozens of singers that share the quality of being excellent and being also spotted (if spot applies to hearing) within the first two seconds of hearing them, like Frank Sinatra or Karen Carpenter.
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  #46  
Old September 19, 2011, 06:16 PM
Daucuscarota Daucuscarota is offline
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I'd recommend both English speakers and Spanish speakers to read "Love and Rockets" comic books, by Jaime and Gilbert Hernandez. These books portrait the life of Mexican and Latin-american immigrants in the USA, and their links to American people, their relationship with both languages and some mannerisms. Jaime and Beto are of Mexican descent, and the books are certainly not bigotry-oriented in any way, but respectful of the differences between all these cultures. There are trade paperbacks and hardcover books that collect a lot of the main stories from the original books: Locas by Jaime, and Palomar by Gilbert. And believe me, it's a fascinating reading, as well.

Cheers!
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  #47  
Old October 16, 2011, 11:02 PM
Ahuizote Ahuizote is offline
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Cool

Elaina,
there are some words and phrases that there are not exactly part of the Spanglish, but ,they are "anglicismos" that people of the northern Mexico use.
"wifa" or "bika" are Spanglish, but we, in the north use other words like "trucka" (phonetics: troca), "lonche","carro", etc., wich are anglicismos that we brought from USA.
You mention "ruca" , but that is a very old word of our slang whose meaning is -old woman-
It turns out that , since we for centuries have called our wives "mi vieja", then "mi ruca" became a different expression for the same.
I recommend you to take a look on the old Mexican sayings,slang ( caló) , and specially the tatacha de la frontera. Take a look and listen a bit to Tin-Tan.
"Una cervatana bien elodia".

I agree with you in one point: OUR ANCIENT TERRITORY- Our States were taken-California(and Nevada),Texas,Nuevo México,Arizona,Colorado,Louisiana,a part of Utah- but since the Mexican spirit was not taken, our cultural influence and the language will prevail.

Saludos.
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  #48  
Old October 19, 2011, 02:20 PM
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CrOtALiTo CrOtALiTo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc777 View Post
I live in Texas and would like to be able to communicate with the Spanish community here. Could someone tell me if Spanish in Mexico is much different from the Spanish that Spanish-Americans speak?

While I'm at it, is there much difference between Spanish in Mexico and Spanish in Central America and South America? How about Spain? I'm sure each country and continent have certain differences and dialects, but overall is the Spanish about the same?

I'm concerned that the immigrants coming up through Mexico and beyond will be speaking a very different language than the Spanish-Americans (Pardon me if I'm using the wrong description....no offense intended).

I'm trying to determine which books/cd's etc. would best suit me given the area that I live. I've already invested in some books and a home study course, but I am now wondering if I am learning a lot of unnecessary Spanish. I can see that this is going to be hard enough as it is. Thanks, Chris
This thread has a lot of time, and I don't know really if you someday will read this commentary, then the Spanish is universal everyone speak Spanish have different the accent very remarked, for example here in Mexico the speech is definitively the accent is different to the Spanish spoken in Spain, now the Argentines have other form to speak the language although the language is the same for everyone the language is overall and all the country including the United States are same, the words are the same, my Spanish is the same than your ones, now the Spanish isn't catalogued as dialect, already a dialect is a other language not recognize as officially language for example the dialect Mayan or other spoken in my country.

Although they are very spoken in several regions from my country, but that dialect or kind to language only is spoken on some country of Central American and South America, the countries that use this dialect are very counted.

So that the Spanish is the same in all the world, I don't grasp to find a difference, either in the English language.

If I'm bad please you do your commentary about this thread, already I have proud of my language and I'd like to know your view point about it.

Regards.
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