#1  
Old August 15, 2008, 06:54 AM
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Sin/ninguna sin/alguna

I was looking at the newspaper today and came across the following,
"sin ironía alguna". I understand that this means without irony.

Please Spanish speakers I need your help here. Would that phrase be
considered gramatically correct. I would think the way to say it would be
sin ironía ninguna. Am I wrong?
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  #2  
Old August 15, 2008, 07:55 AM
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I think both of these are correct and similar in meaning. (Notice the difference in word order) Of course wait for a native speaker's opinion.
sin ninguna ironía
sin ironía alguna
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Old August 15, 2008, 08:08 AM
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as you know, Poli, we can (and usually do) negate two times "no me importa nada", no te entiendo nada, no he comido nada"
In this case both are correct, like in
" no necesito ninguna ayuda tuya" "no necesito ayuda tuya alguna"
You can say "no te hago caso" or "no te hago ningún caso" or "no te hago caso alguno"

so, like David says, both are correct
"sin ninguna ironía" negate two times
"sin ironía alguna" negate one time
As we usually negate two times, the second option (negate one time) is more poetic, and usually has an order change.

saludos
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Old August 15, 2008, 08:20 AM
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Nicely saidst aright, thou nocturnal merry wanderer.

Me gusta tu nuevo título, Sosia. ¿Habrá una historia que lo acompañe?
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Old August 15, 2008, 08:50 AM
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Thanks guys. Wow! This usage is new to me. Now, to remember it....
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Old August 15, 2008, 08:59 AM
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Start using it. That'll help you remember it.
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Old August 15, 2008, 09:08 AM
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And I printed the thread, but I have printed so many of lot of those
that I need a cuaderno.
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Old August 17, 2008, 09:30 PM
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One more question about this. Would it be OK to say con ironía ninguna
I don't think it would be, but I didn't think sin ironía alguna
would be correct and I was wrong.
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Old August 17, 2008, 11:37 PM
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If you can say "sin ninguna ironía" yo can also say "sin ironía ninguna".
I give you the most common order
- Él me dijo "estás gordo" sin ninguna ironía.
- Él me dijo "estás gordo" sin ironía alguna
- Él me dijo "estás gordo" sin ironía ninguna. (comes third because the usual way is the first)
- Él me dijo "estás gordo" sin alguna ironía. (sounds baaad , because we usually negate two times)
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  #10  
Old August 18, 2008, 05:24 AM
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Es siempre bueno saber otros modos de decir la misma
cosa. Gracias por su ayuda.
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