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The position of adjectives with nouns connected by "de"

 

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  #1  
Old January 25, 2010, 06:54 PM
gramatica gramatica is offline
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The position of adjectives with nouns connected by "de"

Hola a todos:

¿Me podrían decir si están bien estas dos frases? Puse el adjetivo después del primer sustantivo porque no tiene que ser un manual de escritura pero no se puede separar "máquina de escribir" ¿es así? Does anyone know of a list of these kinds of nouns where you can't split them up or a good website that talks about this?

El manual detallado de escritura

La máquina de escribir bonita

Muchas gracias
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  #2  
Old January 25, 2010, 07:18 PM
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AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is offline
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On principle, both of your sentences are correct, although maybe, for reasons of emphasis I'd prefer "el detallado manual de escritura".

I don't think it's a matter of lists. I'd advise that you rather thought about making sentences with an unambiguous meaning.

Sombreros para niños de paja. -> Hats for straw children or straw hats for children?
Sombreros de paja para niños. -> Specific hats for specific sizes.

Leche de vaca en polvo. -> Powder cows?
Leche en polvo de vaca. -> Sentence would be ambiguous (dust of a cow?) but "leche en polvo" is a specific product.

Ropa para dama de lana. -> Wonder what a wool lady would look like?
Ropa tejida para dama. -> Right quality for the right object.
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Old January 26, 2010, 03:14 PM
gramatica gramatica is offline
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Thank you very much

Do you know what the term is called for a Spanish noun with "de." For example, "la máquina de escribir".

When the noun is like "la máquina de escribir" and it goes together the adjective has to go after the entire phrase, right? Pero cuando el sustantivo no tiene que ir junto al otro sustantivo puede ir o antes del primer sustantivo o despues dependiendo de la emfasis, ¿no?

Can you think of any other nouns that have to go together besides "la maquina de escribir" or do you know of a good website that talks about this?

Una pequeña correción:

In principle

Thank you
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Old January 27, 2010, 01:15 AM
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irmamar irmamar is offline
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That is called "sinapsia" and it consists of noun + de/a + adjective. Look here, there are a few.
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Old January 27, 2010, 02:51 AM
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Perikles Perikles is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irmamar View Post
That is called "sinapsia" and it consists of noun + de/a + adjective. Look here, there are a few.
And also noun + de/a + verb
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Old January 27, 2010, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
And also noun + de/a + verb
You're right; also a noun (pan de ángel)
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Old January 27, 2010, 06:03 PM
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Thank you very much

El sitio fue muy útil

¿También se llama una frase nominal/una sintagma o son cosas distintas? If it is a "sinapsia" does the adjective always go after the entire "sinapsia" and if it isn't can it go either before or after the first noun?

Thank you

Last edited by gramatica; January 27, 2010 at 06:11 PM.
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Old January 28, 2010, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gramatica View Post
Thank you very much

El sitio fue muy útil

¿También se llama una frase nominal/una sintagma o son cosas distintas? If it is a "sinapsia" does the adjective always go after the entire "sinapsia" and if it isn't can it go either before or after the first noun?

Thank you
"Frase nominal" is not a commonly used term, but "sintagma" (nominal or verbal, it all depends if the nucleus is a noun or a verb).

I think in sinapsia the adjective always go after the noun, never before (above all if both terms are joined with a preposition). I think that it's called "lexía" when they're not joined with a preposition (tinta china, coche cama, etc.).
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Old January 28, 2010, 06:33 PM
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Thank you very much

If it is not a "sintapsia" and the nouns are joined by "de" can the adjective go either after the first noun or before both of them?

For example,

libro de escritura-->buen libro de escritura/libro bueno de escritura

Is "libro de escritura" also called a "lexía" because they don't have to go together?

Thank you very much
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Old January 29, 2010, 01:04 AM
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"Libro de escritura" is not either a lexía or a sinapsia. I could say "libro de física/matemáticas/...". A lexía is a compound noun (written together or not) with a full meaning (you have also compound nouns, written together or not, even with a hyphen ). I'd say that a "sinapsia" is a "lexía" with a preposition (though some authors call it "lexía compleja").

"Libro de escritura" would be what is called "sintagma preposicional", that is with a preposition (de), and it's called "complemento del nombre" because it modifies a noun.

And, of course, you can say "buen libro de escritura".

This page explains the order of adjectives in Spanish. And this one is about compound nouns. I've seen that there is the possibility to write the adjective before the noun in some cases (which I had never thought about before ).

I hope it helps.
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