Ask a Question

(Create a thread)
Go Back   Spanish language learning forums > Spanish & English Languages > Grammar


Soy vs Estoy

 

This is the place for questions about conjugations, verb tenses, adverbs, adjectives, word order, syntax and other grammar questions for English or Spanish.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old May 15, 2008, 10:23 PM
MonteChristo's Avatar
MonteChristo MonteChristo is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 23
Native Language: English
MonteChristo is on a distinguished road
Soy vs Estoy

In another thread Jamie wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
Hola! Yo estoy nuevo, tambien!

Then Tomisimo corrected:

Yo soy nuevo/nueva también.

Can someone explain this? I too would have written Estoy nuevo. I thought estoy showed a temporary condidtion. Estoy in la clase de español.

And I thought soy indicated a more permanent condition. Soy un americano o soy un medico.

So now I'm confused. Please elucidate.
__________________
To the candid heart the truth can do no harm.
Las correcciones siempre serán bienvenidas
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old May 15, 2008, 10:31 PM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
Good question. There was another thread where I explained some of this. I'll try and find it so I don't have to repeat myself.
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old May 15, 2008, 10:54 PM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
Ok, I found the ser vs estar thread I was looking for. I have also now stuck it to the top of the Grammar forum so it's easier to find.

That thread should help you to understand, but I'll also explain it some more here. Ser is used for definitive characteristics even though they are not necessarily permanent:

Soy nuevo aquí - I'm new here
Soy fumador - I'm a smoker
Soy alchólico - I'm an alcoholic
Soy estudiante - I'm a student
Soy doctor - I'm a doctor
Soy rubio - I'm blond


These have varying degrees of permanancy, from not very permanent to fairly permanent. But they all have something in common. They are a definitive trait/characteristic about the person.

I think it's a mistake for language teachers to bring up this idea that ser refers to permanent stuff and estar to mutable stuff. If you look closer, that's not the case at all.
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old May 16, 2008, 12:51 AM
gatitoverde's Avatar
gatitoverde gatitoverde is offline
Pearl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Carolina del Norte, EEUU
Posts: 152
Native Language: Inglés estadounidense
gatitoverde will become famous soon enough
It helps me to remember that estar can change in short order.

Estoy cansado pero después de unas pocas hora en mi cama . . .
Estoy enojado pero . . . espera . . . ¿Eso qué es? Una mariposa. ¡Ah, cuánto me alegran las mariposas!

Pero si alguien es nuevo, ya va a ser el PCN por un rato sin remedio. (PCN es mi sigla para señalar FNG en español.)

Last edited by gatitoverde; May 16, 2008 at 12:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old May 16, 2008, 02:25 AM
sosia's Avatar
sosia sosia is offline
Ankh-Morpork's citizen
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: a 55 cm del monitor
Posts: 2,984
Native Language: Spanish (Spain)
sosia has a spectacular aura aboutsosia has a spectacular aura about
If it's easier for you, it can also be explained with permanent/not permanent
You can say "Estoy nuevo" when you came out of a good shower after a soccer match.
It's mutable stuff, one hour before you were tired ("old")

If you're saying you're new (in the forums), is permanent stuff (will change in two or three months or in some years or never , like apprentice and master)

greetings
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old May 16, 2008, 06:04 AM
poli's Avatar
poli poli is offline
rule 1: gravity
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In and around New York
Posts: 7,810
Native Language: English
poli will become famous soon enoughpoli will become famous soon enough
When I use estar I think to be in the state of as opposed to ser
which is truly to be
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old May 16, 2008, 07:30 AM
Tomisimo's Avatar
Tomisimo Tomisimo is offline
Davidísimo
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 5,664
Native Language: American English
Tomisimo will become famous soon enoughTomisimo will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatitoverde View Post
It helps me to remember that estar can change in short order...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sosia View Post
If it's easier for you, it can also be explained with permanent/not permanent
Quote:
Originally Posted by poli View Post
When I use estar I think to be in the state of as opposed to ser which is truly to be
These are all valid explanations and can be helpful, but can also be counter-productive because things are not that simple. How about:

La farmacia está en la esquina de Morelos y Doria.
Son las ocho con veintiocho minutos.

Permanent or temporary?
__________________
If you find something wrong with my Spanish, please correct it!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old May 16, 2008, 07:56 AM
MonteChristo's Avatar
MonteChristo MonteChristo is offline
Opal
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 23
Native Language: English
MonteChristo is on a distinguished road
Wow. Thank you all very much. Lots of information to digest in that original Ser vs Estar thread.

Poli's statement seems to work in my head. Of course, with caution as Tomisimo points out.

MC
__________________
To the candid heart the truth can do no harm.
Las correcciones siempre serán bienvenidas
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old May 16, 2008, 09:24 AM
gatitoverde's Avatar
gatitoverde gatitoverde is offline
Pearl
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Carolina del Norte, EEUU
Posts: 152
Native Language: Inglés estadounidense
gatitoverde will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomisimo View Post
These are all valid explanations and can be helpful, but can also be counter-productive because things are not that simple. How about:

La farmacia está en la esquina de Morelos y Doria.
Son las ocho con veintiocho minutos.

Permanent or temporary?
Point. Set. Match. Well played, Sir.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old May 17, 2008, 05:25 AM
sosia's Avatar
sosia sosia is offline
Ankh-Morpork's citizen
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: a 55 cm del monitor
Posts: 2,984
Native Language: Spanish (Spain)
sosia has a spectacular aura aboutsosia has a spectacular aura about
Es la excepción que cumple la regla.
Si fuese tan fácil, se le hubiese dicho desde el principio:
"La regla gramatical es....."
making possible the impossible
"La farmacia está (situada) en la esquina de Morelos y Soria"
"La farmacia es grande"
Son las ocho: Permanet. A time is always permanet. Next second IS another time.
Saludos
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
estar, ser, ser vs estar, vocab comparison, vs

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yo estoy cantando la musica de Norteno soyricogringo General Chat 12 April 11, 2008 03:06 PM
I'm back!! Estoy devuelta. Inquirer General Chat 4 October 16, 2007 06:26 PM
estoy estenuada? ngant17 Vocabulary 1 August 02, 2007 10:52 AM
estoy en trabajo pogo Practice & Homework 14 May 11, 2007 11:22 AM
soy hombre feliz celador Vocabulary 7 May 10, 2007 01:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:50 AM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X