Advice Needed

[Xagan]

Hi everyone,

I'm just after a bit of advice. It's quite simple really, what's the best way to learn Spanish? In a previous thread, I mentioned that I'd like to attend a course, but I've realised that it's just a bit too expensive for me at the moment, so I'm going to have to use other ways. I was told that the best way is to do a home course, I was told that the Michel Thomas course is best, so I went and bought it a few days ago.
.
Anyway, I've just met a Spanish person online who lives in my town, we met for the first time today, and we're going to meet up once a week. I showed her the Michel Thomas course booklet, and she wasn't impressed! She said it's just not how Spanish people speak, and that I need to learn the Spanish letters first (and how they sound), then the verbs (the present verbs first), what does this mean!?

She sent me this a little while ago, she said I should read through it:

http://www.spanishdict.com/grammar

None of it makes sense to me! I don't know what adjectives are, or any of the other stuff mentioned. So, where do I go from here? I'm desperate to learn Spanish, but I don't know what route to take. Is the Michel Thomas course any good? If it's not, what's the best route to take from here? Also, I really want to make use of meeting with this Spanish person, I think it's a great opportunity to learn from a native speaker. She says I need to learn the Spanish letters and how they sound, and to also learn the verbs, so how do I go about learning this stuff. The link she gave me just seems a bit too complicated for me.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Xagan

[Rusty]

You've asked a question I think a lot of people ask.

Many folks don't know grammar (or at least they don't know the linguistic terms behind the grammar they already use in their mother tongue). So, it would, of course, seem quite daunting to be in your situation.

The most important thing for you to learn, right now, is that your Spanish-speaking friend can tell you how to say things and you can repeat them until she is happy with your progress. However, you will soon learn that it isn't enough to merely repeat what someone says. You'll need to know what the individual words are and how they are used. Then you'll need to learn if a word that means something in one phrase will mean the same thing if it is used in another phrase. This is where a dictionary comes in handy. However, you must start asking the hard questions at this point.
Is this word a noun? Is this word an adjective? Is this word a verb? The list goes on.
There's no getting around the grammar. You will have to learn it. But this time it'll be because you desperately want to speak Spanish.

The course you bought was frowned upon by a native speaker, because it apparently uses dialog that seems unusual (out-of-place, stilted) to her. That doesn't necessarily mean that the course is wrong and that you can't take away something from it.
What your friend suggested is where many people start - learning how to pronounce the words they see. At least in Spanish, this is a much easier task than in English!
Then she wanted you to learn the present tense verbs. These are the verbs you'll use the most because we talk about the present quite often.
English has present tense verbs, like "I see" and "John knows". But if we want to talk about something that happened in the past, we use the past tense verbs instead - "I saw" and "John knew". Your friend is suggesting that you tackle the present tense forms first.
Spanish verb conjugation (what I just showed you were two different verbs conjugated into the present tense) is very difficult when compared with English, but both languages share some common ground. We both have a sense of person. First person is the speaker. In English, we use the subject pronoun "I" and follow it with a form of the verb that goes with that person, like "I speak". Second person is the person the speaker addresses. In English, we use the subject pronoun "you" and follow it with a form of the verb that goes with that person, like "you speak". Not too hard so far. If the speaker want to reference another, he uses third person. In English, we use "he," "she" or "it" as the subject pronouns and a verb that goes with that person, like "he speaks". Here the verb ending changed.
In Spanish, the verb ending changes for every person. So, English has verb endings that change and so does Spanish. Spanish just has more endings.

Let your friend help you get started with how to pronounce the letters of the alphabet. You'll be able to say every Spanish word after that little exercise and a couple of rules that explain which syllable of a word gets stressed. This is MUCH simpler than pronouncing English words.
Then let your friend teach you how to conjugate a few verbs into the present tense. This means you'll start with a verb that isn't conjugated. I suggest you start with 'speak', 'eat' and 'live'. These are not conjugated and, in Spanish, represent the three different kinds of verbs. Pay attention to how the verbs end. That is VERY important.

Come back here often with your questions. Happy learning!

[Awaken]

I have used both SpanishDict.com and Michel Thomas's course. I personally did not like Michel's course. I found his speaking to be poor and distracting. As for SpanishDict.com, I can only say that it was useful to me. But, I did not start from scratch.

There are a few main schools of thought on learning the language. One major one is: Don't translate, learn it like you learned as a baby. This is Rosetta Stone's approach. I personally find it a little slow and inefficient. Some people love it. I just think it is silly to compare how I learn as an adult to a baby. My one year gets to hear English all day long and has no responsibilities. And it still takes years to learn. And that is with tools that spend all day teaching him the language and repetitively go over vocab. So if it takes him 5 years of full time 24/7 work to become fluent, how can I as an adult expect to match anything like that with a job and responsibilities.

Which brings me to another option: taking what you know in English and using that to help you translate between the two languages. It sounds like your core English grammar skills may be lacking, so this might not be as easy for you but you'll probably get it worked out.

Sadly, there is no "best" way to learn a language. You will need to spend time learning how to speak, write, listen, and read. Each of those are different skills that take time and practice. Reading and writing are much easier than listening and speaking in my opinion. But I use tapes/CDs in my car because that is where I have time.

Don't forget that your local library may have programs for you as well which can save you money. Good luck!

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

@Xagan: I've just heard a couple of samples from Michel Tomas' course. It's certainly artificial, but if you pay attention and follow the method, you will learn the basic logic on how to build sentences by putting together pieces of language with which you are more or less familiar.

Your friend can help you a lot with pronunciation and intonation, as well as providing guidance on grammar. Don't be afraid of words like verb, noun, pronoun, adjective, adverb... these are categories that will help you identify what function a word has inside a sentence. Most language students learn more of their own language through learning a new one.

I think the mixture of both approaches will allow you to learn a bit faster and learn the language better. It's all about time and effort spent in learning, but it all pays off. Good luck!


@Awaken: What you say is true. An adult behaving like a baby is silly and children do take a very long time to master their own language. An adult advanced learner of a foreign language has spent 6 to 8 years studying, but an eight-year-old child hasn't mastered yet advanced writing capabilities that the adult learner does. The adult's history has enriched his own learning while the child is just developing his own background.

But what a language course actually means when they ask you to learn like a baby is to put all stress down and let the new language be built little by little: listen, repeat, transform, play with the structures.
If you start by copying given structures and phrases, you'll acquire a more natural way of building up sentences than if you try to translate words or structures. If you just repeat what you heard, your pronunciation will be better than if you read, because your own language interferes with what the foreign language should sound like.
Also, children take risks and acquire experience from their own mistakes. As an adult learner, the equivalent behaviour is to admit one's own mistakes as a part of one's own learning process. Knowledge will be then more solid than if one's insecure of speaking or writing for fear of being corrected.

Of course there is no universal best method. The best method for learning is the one that makes you feel more comfortable and the one that will actually let you enjoy what you learn.

[chileno]

Awaken:

Same thing as Angelica says. But I would add that you have to be able to "mix" both systems (baby and adults skills) in order to accelerate your learning.

[Villa]

Originally Posted by Xagan

Hi everyone,

I'm just after a bit of advice. It's quite simple really, what's the best way to learn Spanish? In a previous thread, I mentioned that I'd like to attend a course, but I've realised that it's just a bit too expensive for me at the moment, so I'm going to have to use other ways. I was told that the best way is to do a home course, I was told that the Michel Thomas course is best, so I went and bought it a few days ago.
.
Anyway, I've just met a Spanish person online who lives in my town, we met for the first time today, and we're going to meet up once a week. I showed her the Michel Thomas course booklet, and she wasn't impressed! She said it's just not how Spanish people speak, and that I need to learn the Spanish letters first (and how they sound), then the verbs (the present verbs first), what does this mean!?

She sent me this a little while ago, she said I should read through it:

http://www.spanishdict.com/grammar

None of it makes sense to me! I don't know what adjectives are, or any of the other stuff mentioned. So, where do I go from here? I'm desperate to learn Spanish, but I don't know what route to take. Is the Michel Thomas course any good? If it's not, what's the best route to take from here? Also, I really want to make use of meeting with this Spanish person, I think it's a great opportunity to learn from a native speaker. She says I need to learn the Spanish letters and how they sound, and to also learn the verbs, so how do I go about learning this stuff. The link she gave me just seems a bit too complicated for me.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Xagan

Hola Xagan. Glad you asked this question. The best way to learn Spanish is what works for you amigo.
There is no certain best way to learn Spanish but there are tal vez/maybe several best ways to learn. Let me tell you what I did to learn Spanish.

1. For two solid years I only watched television en/in Spanish.
That's no television in English for two whole years. Only Spanish.
I watched Spanish novelas, the news in Spanish and any other programs on Spanish speaking TV.

2. For two solid years I only listened to the radio in Spanish. In my car I traveled 40+ miles to work while only listening to Spanish radio. Music in Spanish, Spanish talk shows etc. etc.

3. Only went out with Spanish speaking girls. Had several Spanish speaking girlfriends who only spoke Spanish to me.

4. Went to a public library that had a program to study Spanish with a Spanish speaker. I taught them English they taught me Spanish. I helped a guy from Peru get his master's degree. Later on he got his P.H.D. He was educated in his country but didn't have English skills.

5. Flash cards. I have made thousands of my own Spanish and Italian flash cards over the years. There are certain key words in Spanish and I put them and more on flash cards. On one side put the Spanish word and on the other side put the English translation. Also put the phonetic translation.
Also sentence strips are excellent. They are like long flash cards where you can put sentences in Spanish. It's important to make you own flash cards. Doing so is a learning process itself.

6. Have Spanish speaking friends in general. Go to where Spanish speakers go. Chruches where they speak Spanish and the sermon is in Spanish, clubs, soccer fields, A.A. Spanish meetings etc. etc.
Yes, I went to Spanish A.A. meetings and I don't even drink. It's very
interesting what they have to say and you're learning Spanish

7. Audio books in Spanish. Listen to them in your car, at the gym and wherever you go. There are free audio books you can download into your phone, i-pod and or computer. I have many.

8. Music in Spanish. Get the lyrics off the internet. Sing along with the music. Learn Spanish songs by memory

9. Marry a Spanish speaker. I did. We only speak Spanish at home and anywhere we go together.

10. If you see/hear someone on the street in public speaking Spanish don't be shy. Go up to them and start speaking Spanish. At least listen. Usually or always, Spanish speakers are happy to see a gringo como yo/like me speaking Spanish.

11. Oh, a proposito/by the way, I forgot to mention that I took 18 classes of Spanish over the years including going to school in Mexico and living with a Mexican Spanish speaking family. Actually I did that two times.

I have some very useful Spanish words to put on your flash cards if you like.

Oh, otra cosa/another thing, I forgot to mentioned. I have bought many Spanish/Italian languages courses and books over the years. If you go to Barnes and Nobles bookstore go to the Spanish and Italian books sections. Well I have just about every book/language course they have to learn Spanish and Italian. I would buy a book just about every other week until I had them all.

Have found many great books for learning Spanish and other languages at used bookstores. So go to used bookstores to get books and course to learn Spanish.

[chileno]

I know several people that have bought every English course that they have been able to get, and still nothing. Years doing this and all of the courses? Up in the closet collecting dust.

[zuma022]

Unfortunately there is no 'best' way to learn a language. It depends on a lot of factors and is an individual process. You're going to need to study just about all of the grammar of the link you provided, but you can't possibly learn it all in one go or 'have a read' through it, if you don't know any of it in English. Learning a foreign language takes time and a lot of dedication. And like the above posters have said you will learn a lot about your own language and why you say things a certain way.

I'm far from an expert in Spanish, but I have learned English and French. Learning the pronunciation and basic conjugation is a good start in my opinion. I don't know the Michel Thomas series, but I think most of the courses are fairly similar. They may not be conversations that are all that natural or even something you're likely going to hear, but these absolute beginner courses will teach you the grammar structure in simple and slow steps, so I wouldn't discard it. Once you got the basics down you need to try an immerse yourself as much as you can in your new language. It will be frustrating at times, but it is a very rewarding experience.

[Awaken]

Angelica,

What you say is true. I agree a mix is good.I definitely agree that as adults, we (especially myself) don't really "try" enough for experimentation. If I'm not sure I am right, I usually don't try it, which definitely holds me back.

I just don't like when they go 100% in that direction. For instance, you don't have to show me 100 images of red horses, red dogs, etc... so I can learn red. I know the concept of colors and it just saves time. But I admit it is easy to just sit back and click pictures.

The other one that is killer are things like ser/estar. It is much faster to learn rules from an adult standpoint vs. just hearing it in every combination 1000s of times.

But as you said, there is no one way. I got on a little rant about the whole "don't translate" thing since a lot of Rosetta Stone people pushed that on me, but when I actually spoke any Spanish to them they didn't know how to respond. And that was after completing the first 3 courses for like $500.

Xagan,

You have to basically do a lot of everything to get there. I have lots and lots of Spanish learning books. But sadly, when I get home, I don't have an opportunity to really work on them. I have some time to visit this forum at work and work on Spanish in the car. I've also been at a plateau for a while, so I'm not the perfect candidate.

[AngelicaDeAlquezar]

I understand your point and I empathize.
I don't really have enough time to study German the way I'd like to and it shows in the many mistakes I make every time I try to make up a sentence. I don't even dare to speak to my German friends in their language, because when I do, they can't really follow what I try to say.
I would only add that no course or teacher by themselves are ever enough. Achieving a good level depends on the learner's dedication to practice, use language and recycle what one has learnt. If one doesn't have or doesn't make time for it, results are unlikely to be satisfactory.