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The subjunctive

 

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  #11  
Old May 14, 2008, 08:49 AM
Alfonso Alfonso is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poli View Post
Iría alli si vayas conmigo.
It's wrong. You should say: Iría si vinieras conmigo. Segunda condicional (hipotética).
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  #12  
Old May 14, 2008, 08:56 AM
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I stand corrected. Thanks David.
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  #13  
Old May 14, 2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatitoverde View Post
It's an idiom, David, like saying Buenos Días or Thank you. Don't try and decline it to say with much thanks. That's just the way it's said, and they would add a preposition otherwise.
Ok, thanks. It's been a while since I've wrangled with German. Ich habe nicht Deutch studiert für viele Jarhe. ¿Está bien escrito eso?
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  #14  
Old May 15, 2008, 03:07 PM
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Well, I have heard

I have heard lots of people follow si with the present subjunctive, although I also learned that this was not correct.

But it's said all the time!
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  #15  
Old May 15, 2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsopa View Post
I have heard lots of people follow si with the present subjunctive, although I also learned that this was not correct.

But it's said all the time!
De acuerdo, Marsopa. Dependiendo de dónde lo hayas escuchado puede considerarse vulgar o no. En Madrid, y en España en general, una construccion como si haya gente iremos a Segovia, es vulgar, en el sentido de inculta o errónea. Y es muy improbable escuchar algo así.

¿Dónde lo escuchas, Marsopa, y con qué connotación y registro?

Gracias por la info. Me parece muy interesante.
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  #16  
Old May 15, 2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso View Post
Es exacto lo que dice Rusty. El uso del subjuntivo es una exigencia de la cláusula principal. No tiene sentido preguntarse por qué, pues no existe, en este caso, una alternativa en indicativo con distinto significado.
El enfoque para comprender el subjuntivo es estructuralista. La estructura lo exige. Muchas gramáticas lo explican como si el subjuntivo tuviera un significado en sí mismo, como si tuviera que ver con la actitud del hablante, o con la irrealidad del suceso, etc. Pero esto es falso. Frases como ésta lo demuestran.

Luego de que + subjuntivo.
Después de que + subjuntivo.
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  #17  
Old May 15, 2008, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfonso View Post
Es exacto lo que dice Rusty. El uso del subjuntivo es una exigencia de la cláusula principal. No tiene sentido preguntarse por qué, pues no existe, en este caso, una alternativa en indicativo con distinto significado.
El enfoque para comprender el subjuntivo es estructuralista. La estructura lo exige. Muchas gramáticas lo explican como si el subjuntivo tuviera un significado en sí mismo, como si tuviera que ver con la actitud del hablante, o con la irrealidad del suceso, etc. Pero esto es falso. Frases como ésta lo demuestran.

Luego de que + subjuntivo.
Después de que + subjuntivo.
Eso es lo que pansaba yo. Gracias, Alfonso. Ahora me siento mejor respecto a mis malentendidos. Sólo hay que memorizar los gatillos de este modo fastidioso.
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  #18  
Old May 16, 2008, 12:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gatitoverde View Post
Eso es lo que pensaba yo. Gracias, Alfonso. Ahora me siento mejor respecto a mis malentendidos. Sólo hay que memorizar los gatillos de este modo fastidioso.
No estoy seguro que se pueda usar gatillo/trigger de este modo. Algún hablante nativo que pueda opinar? Quizá sería mejor: Hay que memorizar estas frases que requieren/exigen/causan/desencadenan/provocan el subjuntivo.
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  #19  
Old May 16, 2008, 01:38 AM
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Oh, I have too much experience trying to port over English expressions into foreign languages to know that it's a losing proposition, David. But every once in a while, sh*t sticks to the wall. I was actually curious what the natives would say about it. If I'd really been that concerned with being correct, I would have thrown it in a search engine and seen if I got any results, which is a method I'm finding indispensable since I'm sitting in a hotel room all week waiting for my rent to expire and my bus to take me back to SLC and you guys are all at work so you can't help me al tiro and I'm making French flashcards anyway--in the first person so I don't take nine hours to compose a butchered sentence as evinced by your little avión thread--and I can't find a French forum approaching this quality, so blah! But actually, thank you. I trust your opinion on that one. I think I'll drink my foe-ty. <---El desfile de idiotas en mi cerebro. <--- Too cool for the parade.

Last edited by gatitoverde; May 16, 2008 at 02:16 AM.
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  #20  
Old May 16, 2008, 04:59 PM
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I was actually curious what the natives would say about it
Me too.
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