#21  
Old January 19, 2010, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
No problem, Crotalito. Don't forget the "of" after "a lot" (see above).



Thanks, Malila. So is it the sense of the passive voice vs. the active voice? Así:

"Las mujeres en Medio Oriente se tapan el rostro" is roughly like saying "The faces of [...] are covered." (More passive...)

"Las mujeres en Medio Oriente tapan su rostro. = Las mujeres en Medio Oriente tapan sus rostros" is roughly like saying "[...] cover their faces."

??
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  #22  
Old January 19, 2010, 05:05 PM
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@Lou Ann: No, both sentences are active voice.

Passive voice: Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente son tapados. (Which sounds horrible and not clear btw.)

The difference is the pronominal form of the verb: taparse vs. tapar.
(Not all the verbs can be like this though.)

Ellas se tapan el rostro = ellas tapan su rostro.
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  #23  
Old January 19, 2010, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Lou Ann: No, both sentences are active voice.

Passive voice: Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente son tapados. (Which sounds horrible and not clear btw.)

The difference is the pronominal form of the verb: taparse vs. tapar.
(Not all the verbs can be like this though.)

Ellas se tapan el rostro = ellas tapan su rostro.

Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente están siempre tapados.

Es eso también Passive voice?

de ser así, está más claro?
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  #24  
Old January 19, 2010, 07:10 PM
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Irma sabrá mejor, pero según yo, la voz pasiva se forma sólo con el verbo "ser", no "estar", pero hay otra forma de voz pasiva, que es la forma impersonal y que en este caso, suena mucho mejor:

En Medio Oriente se tapa el rostro de las mujeres.
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  #25  
Old January 19, 2010, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Lou Ann: No, both sentences are active voice.

Passive voice: Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente son tapados. (Which sounds horrible and not clear btw.)

The difference is the pronominal form of the verb: taparse vs. tapar.
(Not all the verbs can be like this though.)

Ellas se tapan el rostro = ellas tapan su rostro.
Okay, so if it's not a verb that can be used in a "-se" form, how would I know when to use "el/la" or "mi/ti/su", etc.?
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  #26  
Old January 22, 2010, 09:02 PM
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Okay, so there was that previous question that I asked. (I really do wonder about that....)

Secondly, I already asked about "tapar" vs. "ocultar". Now I wonder how "cubrir" fits into the mix? Are all three somewhat synonymous?
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  #27  
Old January 23, 2010, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Okay, so if it's not a verb that can be used in a "-se" form, how would I know when to use "el/la" or "mi/ti/su", etc.?
Quote:
Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente son tapados.
[/QUOTE]

Because the subject is los rostros and not las mujeres.

Does that answer your question?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Secondly, I already asked about "tapar" vs. "ocultar". Now I wonder how "cubrir" fits into the mix? Are all three somewhat synonymous?
I guess it's the same difference as in conceal, hide and cover. No?
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  #28  
Old January 23, 2010, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Lou Ann: No, both sentences are active voice.

Passive voice: Los rostros de las mujeres en Medio Oriente son tapados. (Which sounds horrible and not clear btw.)

The difference is the pronominal form of the verb: taparse vs. tapar.
(Not all the verbs can be like this though.)

Ellas se tapan el rostro = ellas tapan su rostro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Okay, so if it's not a verb that can be used in a "-se" form, how would I know when to use "el/la" or "mi/ti/su", etc.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post

Because the subject is los rostros and not las mujeres.

Does that answer your question?
Not really. Look at Malila's two examples, "ellas se tapan el rostro" and "ellas tapan su rostro". The subject of both is "ellas", right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
I guess it's the same difference as in conceal, hide and cover. No?
So, "tapar" means to cover something up physically ... "ocultar" means to conceal ... "cubrir" means to ... ??? Is "cubrir" exactly the same as "tapar"?
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  #29  
Old January 23, 2010, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
Not really. Look at Malila's two examples, "ellas se tapan el rostro" and "ellas tapan su rostro". The subject of both is "ellas", right?
Right. however your question was about "mi, tu, su" right? and not "se"

ellas = them = their = su Correcto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by laepelba View Post
So, "tapar" means to cover something up physically ... "ocultar" means to conceal ... "cubrir" means to ... ??? Is "cubrir" exactly the same as "tapar"?
Tapar means to cover something physically or not

and it can mean or these are all related to

Cover - conceal - hide

I cover my face

I conceal my face

I hide my face

Yes, they are all different but somewhat synonyms, right?

I think you are stuck somewhere and cannot get ouuuut!

One more, tapar = to put a lid.
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  #30  
Old January 23, 2010, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Right. however your question was about "mi, tu, su" right? and not "se"

ellas = them = their = su Correcto?
Nope ... I still don't get it. If I want to say "raise your hand" to a student, I say "levanta la mano", right? There's no "se" in it, yet I'm still using "la" and not "tu". I still don't know when to use the possessive and when to use the definite article.............

Quote:
Originally Posted by chileno View Post
Tapar means to cover something physically or not

and it can mean or these are all related to

Cover - conceal - hide

I cover my face

I conceal my face

I hide my face

Yes, they are all different but somewhat synonyms, right?

I think you are stuck somewhere and cannot get ouuuut!

One more, tapar = to put a lid.
You're right - I'm still stuck on this and can't get out...... Again:
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