#1  
Old March 05, 2017, 06:38 PM
Glen Glen is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 695
Native Language: English
Glen is on a distinguished road
El voseo

Knowing regional preferences for vos in place of I'm interested in trying to get good at el voseo and wonder, how many of you might have occasion to switch back & forth between the two forms - as the situation may require - and how much of a mental workout it is to recall both of the verb conjugations?
Reply With Quote
   
Get rid of these ads by registering for a free Tomísimo account.
  #2  
Old March 05, 2017, 07:05 PM
Rusty's Avatar
Rusty Rusty is offline
Señor Speedy
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 10,180
Native Language: American English
Rusty has a spectacular aura aboutRusty has a spectacular aura about
I have no problem switching back and forth between the two forms. I speak with folks from different countries and am conversant in both.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 06, 2017, 08:25 AM
aleCcowaN's Avatar
aleCcowaN aleCcowaN is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 2,916
Native Language: Castellano
aleCcowaN is on a distinguished road
I am native voseante and neither have problem to switch from one form to the other.

The only form of voseo that may carry some difficulties for non natives is the Chilean (including some small areas of Argentina and Perú).

Mainstream voseo is just taking the second plural from for Spain's vosotros and suppressing the i. This works with just a few exceptions. It's only considered literary in present simple and present subjunctive.

vosotros tenéis --> vos tenés
vosotros sois --> vos sos
que vosotros digáis que ---> que vos digás que

Most people also uses past simple, but it mimics a mistake made by uneducated speakers from no-voseante regions:

vosotros tuvisteis ---> vos tuvistes
Vosotros fuisteis ---> vos fuistes

No-voseante speakers who use forms like tuvistes and fuistes are adding an extra -s because they think it to be a second person mark:

eres
eras
serás
serías
fueras
fueses
fuistes

To be clear, a non-Oaxacan Mexican who says "fuistes" is undereducated. A Oaxacan or Nicaraguan who says "fuistes" is just using voseo.

Regarding Chilean voseo, it comes from Native American languages in the Southern Andes not having the vocal "u" and some of them not having neither "u" nor "e", so "tenés" was not pronounceable and became "tenís":

¿vos tenís dinero? ¿qué dicís?
__________________
[gone]
¡Jorbáis! Me fui en busca de mejores puertos.

Last edited by aleCcowaN; March 07, 2017 at 02:52 AM. Reason: digás, not digas
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 06, 2017, 05:52 PM
Glen Glen is offline
Emerald
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 695
Native Language: English
Glen is on a distinguished road
Very interesting post, aleC and worthy of further study. El voseo is a topic I want to explore further and get good at, even though most of my contacts are from non-voseo regions of Mexico.
Would it sound strange for me as a non-native speaker to post in voseo form, just for practice?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 06, 2017, 07:47 PM
Aprendo's Avatar
Aprendo Aprendo is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: El Mundo
Posts: 94
Native Language: English
Aprendo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by aleCcowaN View Post
To be clear, a non-Oaxacan Mexican who says "fuistes" is undereducated. A Oaxacan or Nicaraguan who says "fuistes" is just using voseo.
Thanks for the informative and helpful post, aleCcowaN.

You "Non-Oaxacan Mexican."

How is Oaxacan Mexican Spanish different than other parts of Mexico? (If you don't mind me asking.)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 06, 2017, 08:02 PM
AngelicaDeAlquezar's Avatar
AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is online now
Obsidiana
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 7,995
Native Language: Mexican Spanish
AngelicaDeAlquezar is on a distinguished road
@Aprendo: Oaxaca and Chiapas are on the Central-American border, where "voseo" is used; some regions of these states also use it.
__________________
Ain't it wonderful to be alive when the Rock'n'Roll plays...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 06, 2017, 08:08 PM
Aprendo's Avatar
Aprendo Aprendo is offline
Ruby
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: El Mundo
Posts: 94
Native Language: English
Aprendo is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelicaDeAlquezar View Post
@Aprendo: Oaxaca and Chiapas are on the Central-American border, where "voseo" is used; some regions of these states also use it.
Gracias,

OK. I know where they are on the map, I just didn't know they were using Voseo that much.

P.S. - I'll be going to Nicaragua and Guatemala within 3-4 months to do lengthy Spanish study so I'm looking forward to improving my lingo.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 06, 2017, 08:13 PM
AngelicaDeAlquezar's Avatar
AngelicaDeAlquezar AngelicaDeAlquezar is online now
Obsidiana
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mexico City
Posts: 7,995
Native Language: Mexican Spanish
AngelicaDeAlquezar is on a distinguished road
It's not widely used, both states are big and diverse, but there are regions where even the accents at both sides of the border sound similar.

Cool, have lots of fun! Learning a language in a country is an awesome experience.
__________________
Ain't it wonderful to be alive when the Rock'n'Roll plays...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 07, 2017, 02:47 AM
aleCcowaN's Avatar
aleCcowaN aleCcowaN is offline
Diamond
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 2,916
Native Language: Castellano
aleCcowaN is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen View Post
Would it sound strange for me as a non-native speaker to post in voseo form, just for practice?
You may, if you like. I think it would be wonderful that you head those posts with "and now, a little bit of voseo". I for one avoid it, not because I think there's anything wrong with it -in fact, I think to be extremely old fashion, almost baroque- but to avoid stressing beginners and intermediate students with so many variations.

After all, no-one wants anyone to say "my goodness, this language is a nightmare ... I'll switch to Swahili" .
__________________
[gone]
¡Jorbáis! Me fui en busca de mejores puertos.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmark this thread at:

 

Link to this thread
URL: 
HTML Link: 
BB Code: 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Site Rules

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Possessives for Voseo DancerAislingPaige Grammar 3 October 29, 2013 06:29 PM
Reverencial voseo vs. Vuestra merced Caballero Grammar 5 September 12, 2011 01:31 PM
Voseo laepelba Grammar 20 June 29, 2011 11:37 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:04 PM.

Forum powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

X